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starwomyn 66F
4324 posts
2/14/2020 10:29 am

Last Read:
2/19/2020 9:57 am

Religion and European versus American History

When researching ancestral history, one common thread that I frequently find in the Quest for Religious Freedom. Once upon a time, England didn't have a clue, one week they could be burning the Catholics and the next week the Protestants. My Catholic ancestors migrated from England to the New World so that they could be Catholics in peace.

I have Quaker ancestors who were banished from Massachusetts by the Puritans. They started their own Quaker community in Lousia County, Virginia. There was a Mary Dyer who stood up to the Puritans and ended up getting hanged. Sometimes, it pays to choose your battles wisely. My ancestors survived. One of my ancestors was Dolly Madison. She was written out of the Pine Street Quaker Meeting after marrying James Madison. She joined the Episcopal Church and never looked back.

My several times great grandmother Mary Small was written out of her Quaker Meeting for marrying John "KW" Waller. They moved to Kentucky and never looked back. Neither of them was Catholic but their married into the Catholic branch of my family.

My younger 's several times great grandfather and his several times great uncle both left England along with their sons because both their wives had been put on trial for being witches. They were tied and bounded, tossed into the river and drowned. They were found to be innocent and given a Christian burial by the crown. True witches would have floated, would have been executed, and tossed into a pit without Christian burial.

This kind of insanity was happening all over Europe. There was the Spanish Inquisition, Reformation battles, and Burning times. It's a small wonder that folks were fleeing Europe and sailing to the New World.

Thomas Jefferson wrote e The Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom was drafted in 1777 (however it was not first introduced into the Virginia General Assembly until 1779) by Thomas Jefferson in the city of Fredericksburg, Virginia. On January 16, 1786, the Assembly enacted the statute into the state's law. The statute disestablished the Church of England in Virginia and guaranteed freedom of religion to people of all religious faiths, including Christians of all denominations, Jews, Muslims, and Hindus. The statute was a notable precursor of the First Amendment in the United States Constitution.

The Bill of Rights including the First Amendment was adopted by the States to become the United States Bill of Rights in1791.



starwomyn 66F
6793 posts
2/14/2020 10:32 am

The first amendment allows United States citizens to be as devout or free-thinking as they want and still consider themselves spiritual.


MrsJoe 72F
12040 posts
2/14/2020 11:49 am

I am a Christian because I have a personal relationship with God through the death and resurrection of Jesus. It's that simple.
I don't require a denominational name nor do I owe explanations to any person for what I believe or how I chose to live those beliefs and it certainly is nothing to argue about.
As your blog shows, it's insane how many denominations, splinter groups, titles, and cults there are, all claiming to be the right form of Christianity. No wonder many are totally turned off to anything they view as religion.


Life is short and precious. Why don' we just waste it by arguing and name calling with strangers.


starwomyn 66F
6793 posts
2/14/2020 1:41 pm

    Quoting MrsJoe:
    I am a Christian because I have a personal relationship with God through the death and resurrection of Jesus. It's that simple.
    I don't require a denominational name nor do I owe explanations to any person for what I believe or how I chose to live those beliefs and it certainly is nothing to argue about.
    As your blog shows, it's insane how many denominations, splinter groups, titles, and cults there are, all claiming to be the right form of Christianity. No wonder many are totally turned off to anything they view as religion.
There is a huge difference between Spirituality and Religion. There are very spiritual people in all kinds of religious groups. The religious groups are the community. Lulu wrote a blog trying to point out that the United States is full of crazy religious people while Europe is full of perfect atheist people. Ironically, my ancestors got the hades out of Europe because of religious persecution. The reason the first amendment was created along with the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom was to protect Americans so that they can practice their religions without fear.


sparkleflit 72F
5617 posts
2/14/2020 3:02 pm

Hold your horses there champ.....your characterization of my blog is ridiculous...sounds like you got your panties in a wad......LOL......Your ancestors got out of Europe on religious grounds a long time ago......My blog was referring to the present.....and, by the way, women were persecuted and killed for witchcraft in the USA as well.....The Inquisition and all that crazyness happened before there was a USA....and in the USA had it's share of Christian crazy......

But now, today, in the present, the USA isn't unique in having freedom of religion. It is actually considered to be 9th on a list of best in freedom of religion......behind all those Western European countries that aren't so freaked out by Sikhs and Hindus and Islam and Atheism.....In case you were wondering, freedom of Religion is not just freedom for Christians........

The


Greyhairedone 64M
1 post
2/14/2020 3:44 pm

The First Amendment also means there will be no State sponsored religion. As in Spain and France and yes England at the time the Constitution was written


earthytaurus3 79F
40947 posts
2/14/2020 5:03 pm

IMO, religious freedom, to my mind, should also mean freedom FROM religion. Yours sounds radical to me … and exclusionary … especially when you dare mention 'spirituality'. YOU are not the keeper of spirituality! THAT resides within the soul of man and does not carry a label, whether cathlolicism, quakerisam, or waterever 'ism' you which to project. Unless, of course, you see yourself as the second coming.


starwomyn 66F
6793 posts
2/14/2020 5:50 pm

Thomas Jefferson quotation: The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts as are only injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts as are only injurious to others.


starwomyn 66F
6793 posts
2/14/2020 6:08 pm

    Quoting sparkleflit:
    Hold your horses there champ.....your characterization of my blog is ridiculous...sounds like you got your panties in a wad......LOL......Your ancestors got out of Europe on religious grounds a long time ago......My blog was referring to the present.....and, by the way, women were persecuted and killed for witchcraft in the USA as well.....The Inquisition and all that crazyness happened before there was a USA....and in the USA had it's share of Christian crazy......

    But now, today, in the present, the USA isn't unique in having freedom of religion. It is actually considered to be 9th on a list of best in freedom of religion......behind all those Western European countries that aren't so freaked out by Sikhs and Hindus and Islam and Atheism.....In case you were wondering, freedom of Religion is not just freedom for Christians........

    The
The United States is much like Europe with an assortment of citizens with varying beliefs including Jews, Sikhs, Hindus and Islam and Baha'i along with the atheists. There is more diversity in the cities versus rural communities like the one where I live. There are four churches all in a row down the hill from my abode. I attend 12 Step Meetings in the Presbyterian Church, next to it is the Episcopal Church that I attend occasionally. It also hosts 12 Step Meetings and the Priest is a Lesbian. Next to that Church is a Baptist that I don't attend. It has an outdoor food pantry where I add donations. Next to that Church is a Catholic Church where I go to light candles. I know a yoga instructor who attends the Catholic Church who tells me that the Priest is married with children. A few miles down the road is the black neighborhood with several churches including the African Methodist Episcopal Church. In the next county are several pagan communes along with a snake-handling church. There is a local Unitarian Church for folks who don't quite fit the Christian mode. There are also a bunch of people who don't attend any kind of church. They go to bars instead but only after 1pm on Sundays.


starwomyn 66F
6793 posts
2/14/2020 6:12 pm

    Quoting earthytaurus3:
    IMO, religious freedom, to my mind, should also mean freedom FROM religion. Yours sounds radical to me … and exclusionary … especially when you dare mention 'spirituality'. YOU are not the keeper of spirituality! THAT resides within the soul of man and does not carry a label, whether cathlolicism, quakerisam, or waterever 'ism' you which to project. Unless, of course, you see yourself as the second coming.
WTF are you talking about? A person can be spiritual within the confines of a religious denomination. Quakers believe that there is a light inside of every person regardless. I tend to do better within a spiritual community and Quakerism is the best fit for me. What other people do or don't do is their own business.


sparkleflit 72F
5617 posts
2/14/2020 6:55 pm

    Quoting starwomyn:
    The United States is much like Europe with an assortment of citizens with varying beliefs including Jews, Sikhs, Hindus and Islam and Baha'i along with the atheists. There is more diversity in the cities versus rural communities like the one where I live. There are four churches all in a row down the hill from my abode. I attend 12 Step Meetings in the Presbyterian Church, next to it is the Episcopal Church that I attend occasionally. It also hosts 12 Step Meetings and the Priest is a Lesbian. Next to that Church is a Baptist that I don't attend. It has an outdoor food pantry where I add donations. Next to that Church is a Catholic Church where I go to light candles. I know a yoga instructor who attends the Catholic Church who tells me that the Priest is married with children. A few miles down the road is the black neighborhood with several churches including the African Methodist Episcopal Church. In the next county are several pagan communes along with a snake-handling church. There is a local Unitarian Church for folks who don't quite fit the Christian mode. There are also a bunch of people who don't attend any kind of church. They go to bars instead but only after 1pm on Sundays.
So what?....My blog was about State-sanctioned religion....


starwomyn 66F
6793 posts
2/14/2020 8:00 pm

    Quoting sparkleflit:
    So what?....My blog was about State-sanctioned religion....
There is no State-sanctioned religion in the United States. People gravitate to what works best for them. I am sure that snake-handling preacher doesn't want any lesbians in his congregation. Likewise, the lesbian priest doesn't want any snakes in her church


earthytaurus3 79F
40947 posts
2/14/2020 8:55 pm

This is the dumbest part of your argument: "A person can be spiritual within the confines of a religious denomination." Spirituality is withOUT religion. THIS is WTF I'm talking about ………….


Katie_au_lait 73F
6828 posts
2/14/2020 8:57 pm

    Quoting starwomyn:
    There is no State-sanctioned religion in the United States. People gravitate to what works best for them. I am sure that snake-handling preacher doesn't want any lesbians in his congregation. Likewise, the lesbian priest doesn't want any snakes in her church
What do you think "IN GOD WE TRUST" means?


lilium5 70F
2388 posts
2/14/2020 9:41 pm

'Likewise, the lesbian priest doesn't want any snakes in her church'

especially the one-eyed kind


lilium5 70F
2388 posts
2/15/2020 1:25 am

Just noticed additional posts which weren't there when I posted earlier. Just want to say I'm neutral, that I respect others beliefs. My reference to snake was prompted by the novel 'The Power of One', set in apartheid South Africa during 1930's/1940's (Bryce Courtenay) - nothing to do with lesbians, just one-eyed snakes (among other things). Brilliant.


earthytaurus3 79F
40947 posts
2/15/2020 4:34 am

    Quoting  :

By all means! I am the only one she addressed with WTF. I personally believe spirituality resides within the soul of man and it needs bear no label. PERIOD! I fail to see WHY would she take offense.


earthytaurus3 79F
40947 posts
2/15/2020 4:38 am

Separation of church and state is (or should be) a given.


starwomyn 66F
6793 posts
2/15/2020 11:31 am

    Quoting earthytaurus3:
    This is the dumbest part of your argument: "A person can be spiritual within the confines of a religious denomination." Spirituality is withOUT religion. THIS is WTF I'm talking about ………….
You are the confused one. A person can be Spiritual within the confines of religion but they can also be Spiritual while dancing in the rain.


JerseyGirl2019 63F
248 posts
2/15/2020 1:20 pm

Great Reply Star And I Loved your Blog
Your a sweetheart


earthytaurus3 79F
40947 posts
2/15/2020 4:38 pm

    Quoting  :

ROFL!


earthytaurus3 79F
40947 posts
2/15/2020 4:48 pm

    Quoting JerseyGirl2019:
    Great Reply Star And I Loved your Blog
    Your a sweetheart
This is corrected to read, 'you're' as in the suck-up, 'Your a sweetheart" rather than replacement with the possessive 'your' …. GOD help us English teachers! There's GOT to be a special place in heaven for us .


earthytaurus3 79F
40947 posts
2/15/2020 4:51 pm

    Quoting  :

"Ain't " it the truth! LOL One has to either laugh, cry or bolt! LOL


earthytaurus3 79F
40947 posts
2/15/2020 6:13 pm

Seems I'm the one left to suck up Star's hostility. Now that she has JerseyGirl on her side, I'm really, really nervous! LOL


starwomyn 66F
6793 posts
2/15/2020 6:48 pm

    Quoting Katie_au_lait:
    What do you think "IN GOD WE TRUST" means?


Also Trust that God gave us enough common sense to stay away from snakes or at least the poisonous ones.


sparkleflit 72F
5617 posts
2/16/2020 10:46 am

    Quoting Katie_au_lait:
    What do you think "IN GOD WE TRUST" means?


They are fish swimming in Christianity.....they don't register religion in government.They probably don't even know the degree to which the government favours Christian oganizations when handing out contracts.....and will probably come up with a justification.....there is always a justification ...


myseek1 76F
113 posts
2/16/2020 12:31 pm

How can the subject religion cause such an uproar in a blog - "You dumb, Me intelligent"!? LOL

Happiness is when what you think, what you say, what you do are in harmony - M. Gandhi


sparkleflit 72F
5617 posts
2/16/2020 7:48 pm

    Quoting myseek1:
    How can the subject religion cause such an uproar in a blog - "You dumb, Me intelligent"!? LOL
Interesting that you always declare yourself above the fray while participating in it.....