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jiminycricket1 73M
5404 posts
11/2/2019 7:23 am
Leaf.. 2020 Democrats.. Things are changing fast..


Well Beto.. bit the bullet..
but Amy got the ammunition
The Democrats will, will it..
A Klobuchar nomination..

I know you can't see it.. but i do ...There is too much established loyalty in the Democrat party now for each candidate..that will provide a negativity to the leaders.... As each Candidate withdraws... No established loyalty is going to get their vote, or they would have already been there. Those that are positive to each candidate has already been established...the negative is going to take over.
There's nothing to talk about Klobuchar that's negative..And when it becomes time to talk .. it will be positive. That's what the undecideds and vanquished will see
The only candidate who has no negatives, and has no loyalty to oppose..... is Klobuchar.


jiminycricket1 73M
13732 posts
11/2/2019 7:25 am

Mayor Pete would win this hands down.. If he wasn't gay.. It's too big a negative.. even more so than Socialism.

What we got.. Is the 'false negative" of Pete and the "false positive" of Amy.. The false positive will WIN
For everyone else.. beside Pete and Amy... you got to deal with the TRUTH, and it's not a pretty picture.


Seattlechick8 67F

11/2/2019 7:41 am

NOT!! She’s polling at Only 2%
She Will Not Be The Nominee
Doesn’t Matter Who It Is
Trump’s Easily Going To Win 20/20
Get Ready To Move To Canada JC
You Just Couldn’t Live Here With Trump President
Another 4 Yrs
Now Don’t Let The Door hit Your Butt To Hwrd
On Your Way North lol


Seattlechick8 67F

11/2/2019 9:45 am

Bijou I have for Yrs lol
JC he’s Not Getting Assinated
As Much As Libs Want Him To Be
I’m Curious As To Why You All Have So
Much Hatred For This Man
Certainly There Have Been Other Presidents You
Disliked
I Couldn’t Stand Obama But Never Wished Him
Dead!!


jiminycricket1 73M
13732 posts
11/2/2019 9:46 am

    Quoting Seattlechick8:
    NOT!! She’s polling at Only 2%
    She Will Not Be The Nominee
    Doesn’t Matter Who It Is
    Trump’s Easily Going To Win 20/20
    Get Ready To Move To Canada JC
    You Just Couldn’t Live Here With Trump President
    Another 4 Yrs
    Now Don’t Let The Door hit Your Butt To Hwrd
    On Your Way North lol
At this point, neither of us has any idea what's going to happen.. So we are guessing..

Moving to Canada is not an option for me..

You think it's just a game.. Gone Wild..It's no game with the amount of evidence against Trump..and your ignorance.. and the payback for that..
Let's Make A Deal
So lets' say..... he doesn't get impeached. improbable but possible
Let's say, he somehow win the election.. improbable but possible.

And what does Trump Win.. in this Let's make a Deal...let's look behind Door Three.. Nope, it's not impeachment, Nope It's not imprisonment..
It's a fully paid "trip".... a ticket to Assassination.

So then you'll be right and I'll wrong... Your fake news about a DEEP STATE, About "The Conspiracy" will finally not be fake. Sometime when you say "the sky is falling" it falls on YOU... Hey if they can do it .. what you say they do.. The jig will be up....And they will stop the dancing in the Streets of Russia.
And you fricken treasonous idiots can MOVE There.
Что за хрень.... written
Chto za khren'... verbal.
Russian ...As in acronym ..... WTF!


Seattlechick8 67F

11/2/2019 9:48 am

Bijou Have Done It For Yrs
And It Takes No Extra Time
I’m A Fast Typer lol


Seattlechick8 67F

11/2/2019 9:52 am

Calm Down JC
He’s Not Going To Be Killed
As Much As Libs Want That
And He Is Going To Be Re-Elected
Sorry To Burst Your Tiny Little Bubble
Don’t Let The Door kick Your Ass When
You Leave The States
You Have 1 Yr To Save JC-You Can Do It
I Doubt The IRS Will Miss Ya


LeafReport 73M

11/2/2019 10:37 am

I'll tell you how I see this thing....one HUGE new observation and this just happened. But first a summary. The voters remain in a holding pattern just like I said they were over a month ago. Nothing happens while impeachment is going on. Impeachment is proving VERY important to the people and the damage as you can see, and as I have been WARNING you about for months has been absolutely devastating. The Fed is doing everything they can to keep us from going over the edge...and we are almost there. It's going to be close. You better be hoping that Americans spend big this Christmas. I won't be. I hope I'm in the minority on that.

Now...for the politics of it. I said from the beginning that Beto hired the wrong people. It's a shame because I was rooting for him. But his rollout was late and badly disorganized. I do think he'll figure all that out over the next two years and be better prepared to deliver an inspiring message for what concerns voters then. It's won't be immigration...climate change possibly. By the time the next campaign rolls around we'll be emerging from recession so big ideas will be hot and an inspiring and unifying message will resonate. We are not there now as a nation and thus Beto's problems. His message was a poor fit for reality...TODAY. That will change in 2 years.

Amy is barely hanging on and her best chance is as a possible VP. It won't be a dynamic choice and I prefer star power, but that rarely happens. If Amy does well in the Iowa caucus the VP talk emerges.

But the HUGE news is what Mayor Pete just said....suggesting that its a 2 person race between him and Warren. What a BRILLIANT political move that was! Man that was a SMART thing to float. It will be FASCINATING how the others react to that. It's a big new hole in Biden's boat and Bernie will obviously be ready to take advantage of a food fight. But will Warren take the bait? That is hard to tell. If she does, look for the big donors to start giving Joe real money and South Carolina completely rewrites the campaign. If she doesn't take the bait Mayor Pete just torpedoed the Biden and Sanders campaign. Does that open it up for Harris in South Carolina? It just might.

Stay tuned...it is getting very interesting.


Seattlechick8 67F

11/2/2019 11:04 am

Lol Leafy To Funny


LeafReport 73M

11/2/2019 1:08 pm

I know I know. Yes, Warren will be next president. The only thing that derails that is if Trump succeeds in back channel subversive efforts to steal the election with foreign interference to cover up video of him peeing on mattresses with Russian hookers. So there is a prediction that covers the remote possibility of a second Trump term if fascism manages to hang on. At the end of that term however Trump will be bald and a pigeon named Pierre Defeatedto will be circling overhead.


sparkleflit 76F
10271 posts
11/2/2019 2:49 pm

    Quoting Seattlechick8:
    Calm Down JC
    He’s Not Going To Be Killed
    As Much As Libs Want That
    And He Is Going To Be Re-Elected
    Sorry To Burst Your Tiny Little Bubble
    Don’t Let The Door kick Your Ass When
    You Leave The States
    You Have 1 Yr To Save JC-You Can Do It
    I Doubt The IRS Will Miss Ya
So you started capitalizing random letters and then you forgot why you did it and now you do it because it's a habit........I'm not surprised, that seems to be the extent of your critical thinking.


Seattlechick8 67F

11/2/2019 4:03 pm

Lulu get ready for Libs to come to Canada when trump
Trounces dem 20/20
Your little island should have room enough to take them lol


Seattlechick8 67F

11/2/2019 5:51 pm

I Didn’t Realize I Used My Other IPhone
And Have The Blessed Lady Handle On That One
So Glad You Noticed Lol


Seattlechick8 67F

11/2/2019 5:52 pm

ET Used To Always Use Her 2 Usernames On One Blog
Libs Said Nothing About That One Did They?


jiminycricket1 73M
13732 posts
11/2/2019 6:32 pm

    Quoting Seattlechick8:
    Calm Down JC
    He’s Not Going To Be Killed
    As Much As Libs Want That
    And He Is Going To Be Re-Elected
    Sorry To Burst Your Tiny Little Bubble
    Don’t Let The Door kick Your Ass When
    You Leave The States
    You Have 1 Yr To Save JC-You Can Do It
    I Doubt The IRS Will Miss Ya
I know you think i'm kidding.. but either way .. The Deep state or just the shared hatred for the man..

I don't see much difference between, liberals and conservatives emotionally. You think you get pissed .. You haven't EVER seen a PISSED off REAL American. It will be the breaking point.

The line to cross for Liberals is way out there, more so than conservatives..

But that line will be reached if Trump is re-elected.
You folk and your "fake hate' don't know what hate is.
Once it happens, there will be no stopping.. Millions of people, and the right to bear arms. It won't stop until its done.
YOU folks.. just f*ck yourself over. Trump says there will be civil war if he is not elected. well, he speaks the opposite of what he says. It will seem like a civil war, if he is elected.
You think it's bad NOW? There will be fricken riots if he gets lets.. You know the rules that democrats follow.. will be thrown out the window... Rules.. when you've already thrown the rules out the window.. The demos won't need no stinking rules.. ..
I say it because that's what will happen. If we don't take this country back by the election.. It will taken back by FORCE.. Forget Liberalism or Socialism as the cause.. this country was NEVER about that. I would recommend that you don't want to be in line of fire IF it happens

You think it will be like you guys.. like convince people withlies and talk shows.. spouting crap.. If Trump gets elected.. You won't hear a peep...Time for talk will be over. shit will happen and the fan will be blowing.


jiminycricket1 73M
13732 posts
11/2/2019 6:53 pm

    Quoting LeafReport:
    I'll tell you how I see this thing....one HUGE new observation and this just happened. But first a summary. The voters remain in a holding pattern just like I said they were over a month ago. Nothing happens while impeachment is going on. Impeachment is proving VERY important to the people and the damage as you can see, and as I have been WARNING you about for months has been absolutely devastating. The Fed is doing everything they can to keep us from going over the edge...and we are almost there. It's going to be close. You better be hoping that Americans spend big this Christmas. I won't be. I hope I'm in the minority on that.

    Now...for the politics of it. I said from the beginning that Beto hired the wrong people. It's a shame because I was rooting for him. But his rollout was late and badly disorganized. I do think he'll figure all that out over the next two years and be better prepared to deliver an inspiring message for what concerns voters then. It's won't be immigration...climate change possibly. By the time the next campaign rolls around we'll be emerging from recession so big ideas will be hot and an inspiring and unifying message will resonate. We are not there now as a nation and thus Beto's problems. His message was a poor fit for reality...TODAY. That will change in 2 years.

    Amy is barely hanging on and her best chance is as a possible VP. It won't be a dynamic choice and I prefer star power, but that rarely happens. If Amy does well in the Iowa caucus the VP talk emerges.

    But the HUGE news is what Mayor Pete just said....suggesting that its a 2 person race between him and Warren. What a BRILLIANT political move that was! Man that was a SMART thing to float. It will be FASCINATING how the others react to that. It's a big new hole in Biden's boat and Bernie will obviously be ready to take advantage of a food fight. But will Warren take the bait? That is hard to tell. If she does, look for the big donors to start giving Joe real money and South Carolina completely rewrites the campaign. If she doesn't take the bait Mayor Pete just torpedoed the Biden and Sanders campaign. Does that open it up for Harris in South Carolina? It just might.

    Stay tuned...it is getting very interesting.
"I know you can't see it.. but i do"
"I know you can't see it.. but i do"
"I know you can't see it.. but i do "

What is it.. I see.. well 46% of Democrats do not see themselves as Liberal.

Democrat aren't willing to risk it all, on promises.

Since 80% of Democrats are not gay.. mayor Pete gets jobbed.

Biden will put the wrong two word together and that will be the end of him.

Bernie had a heart attack.

Warren is NOT liked, by those that DON"T LIke her.. They won't settle on her... You know Warren is like Trump... she only plays to her base. and that's only 54% Liberal Democrat

Every other candidate beside Klobuchar has draw backs.. with experience, money, color of their skin, single issues.... All of them have reasons people can see. Trump will take advantage of.

I do not really know Klobuchar's ideology..I know she gets stuff done.... I'm not basing it on who has the best ideology.. I'm basing it, on my logic of how people react. Klobuchar won't WOO them, she won't enlighten them. she won't, expose herself to be taken advantage of by Trump.. Overall, she will be considered the candidate people will SETTLE for.. THat ALL Democrats can settle on to beat TRUMP.

Will it happen/.. heck, i don't know...but believe me.. It's A GOOD possibility

.


sparkleflit 76F
10271 posts
11/2/2019 7:01 pm

    Quoting  :

What a deal......Two airheads for the price of one.....


Seattlechick8 67F

11/2/2019 11:32 pm

Panther it was yrs Ago And It Was A Huge Debate That Went On In Here For Weeks -Liszt And Maisie Originally
Noticed It On Her Blog -That She Had 2
She Denied It Was Her But It Was Obvious It Was
The Issue Finally Was Dropped !!


Seattlechick8 67F

11/2/2019 11:33 pm

Lulu Now That Was Funny -Even For you
Because You Have No Sense Of Humour Usually


Seattlechick8 67F

11/2/2019 11:47 pm

JC as much As Warren Is Disliked She Easily Could Get
The Nomination Or Biden Who Isn’t Liked But He’s Polling
High -Dems Are Desperate To Beat Trump
This Impeachment Garbage Is Putting The Nail On The Coffin
For Them It Won’t Happen
He Will Be An Easy Win 20/20
Do Not forget The Millions Who Are Still For Him
Justin Beiber AND Kanye West Totally Dupport Him And Each
Have Millions Of Twitter Followers
Social Media Has A Huge Influence And Justin Will Draw the
18 Yr Old First Time Voters
Bank On It JC
AND Paula White His Pastor Has Millions-She’s Locked In
The Evangelical Vote Easily For Him And Joel Osteen Has
Millions Even Though He Dosent Get Political He’s Clearly For
Trump
Trump Is STILL Very Popular But Libs Try To Spin It That
He’s Not
Rioting? That’s Something The Left Does So Well


LeafReport 73M

11/3/2019 2:33 am

    Quoting  :

America is not going to vote for a corrupt fascist baby stealing sexual predator...LOL


LeafReport 73M

11/3/2019 3:20 am

    Quoting jiminycricket1:
    "I know you can't see it.. but i do"
    "I know you can't see it.. but i do"
    "I know you can't see it.. but i do "

    What is it.. I see.. well 46% of Democrats do not see themselves as Liberal.

    Democrat aren't willing to risk it all, on promises.

    Since 80% of Democrats are not gay.. mayor Pete gets jobbed.

    Biden will put the wrong two word together and that will be the end of him.

    Bernie had a heart attack.

    Warren is NOT liked, by those that DON"T LIke her.. They won't settle on her... You know Warren is like Trump... she only plays to her base. and that's only 54% Liberal Democrat

    Every other candidate beside Klobuchar has draw backs.. with experience, money, color of their skin, single issues.... All of them have reasons people can see. Trump will take advantage of.

    I do not really know Klobuchar's ideology..I know she gets stuff done.... I'm not basing it on who has the best ideology.. I'm basing it, on my logic of how people react. Klobuchar won't WOO them, she won't enlighten them. she won't, expose herself to be taken advantage of by Trump.. Overall, she will be considered the candidate people will SETTLE for.. THat ALL Democrats can settle on to beat TRUMP.

    Will it happen/.. heck, i don't know...but believe me.. It's A GOOD possibility
    .
Hiya Cricket. When are we going to get Mahomes back...grrr

Well there you go again...LOL How many times do I have to remind me of all my correct predictions? Remember impeachment?

I think we see the country differently because of where we both live. I've been on the east coast for over 30 years now and spent 4 in Denver. The Mid-Atlantic region is all politics all the time so I grant you I view the dynamics differently. Virginia has an election on Tuesday and I'm betting that this will put the nail in the coffin for the GOP as Democrats take full control of the State Legislature. Big time changes are coming to health care, gun control, infrastructure and the minimum wage. Washington never ignores Virginia, we just don't let them. There's a reason Virginia has produced more Presidents than any other state. It's been frustrating for Virginia voters trying to push out these corrupt right wing stingy gun nut racist fascists. I'm hoping we finally get er done.

Amy is competent yes, inspiring no. Boring yes, persuasive no. I could go on and on. America benefits with her in the senate. It's where she belongs and I'm fine with her staying there awhile. I wouldn't tap her for VP and I don't think anybody in the race will either but she could wiggle into the conversation. I'll listen to the arguments...and I'm listening to yours. I don't think you make your case however because I still feel that you are misreading the electorate. But I'll keep talking to you about it.

It's true some people do not like Warren. This isn't the "inspiring" election as I've said. That comes next time. This is a fight between bulldogs. That is not going to change. Voters will settle for calm rational governance...but that comes later, AFTER the vote. This is what you just can't see. The only thing I can see that could possibly tame the coming fist fight is if the polls clearly show the gig is up for McConnell. I'm not convinced it is unfortunately. Kentucky's election Tuesday gives us a peek...and McConnell's bullshit over impeachment will tell us more still.

Don't get me wrong...I don't want a perpetual political fight...but I do want an end to the one we're already in. There's still too much ass kicking that has to happen. This is not Gerald Ford's America Cricket. I would be the first to stand with you if I believed true bi-partisan governance for the good of the country could emerge. Just not going to happen. Warren will advance the debate far better than anybody else. That's why she's the best pick AT THIS TIME. Her presidency will shape the future of the country. A Trump reelection won't do that but it will accelerate the nation's decline and make things far more expensive and difficult to clean up. The legacy of lies will leave a terrible mess behind as our generation passes away. That 'reality' is why this election and the ensuing governance is going to be fight. Amy is not going to lead that with a yellow legal pad and a pencil.

As for everyone else....Booker has proven that this isn't the inspiring race. If that message doesn't resonate, and it hasn't, no inspiring message will. Biden does know how to fight, so you can't rule him out. However, he does indeed struggle to communicate in the present 'reality'. That might be the unforgivable sin this time around. The thing about Mayor Pete, and his brilliant political play this week...is that the play does nothing for him in the end. It's not going to happen. I think he needs to complete his term, pack his bags and move...possibly to Georgia and run for Governor somewhere. He has to get out of Indiana. He needs to relocate to a purple or leaning purple state. That's what cements his political future...otherwise he lives a quiet life and becomes a trivia question on how to spell and pronounce his name. The nation will move on without him. But I respect the guy a lot.

Bernie...I'm so done with him now but he just won't go away. His campaign is exactly why I hate caucus states. He has served his purpose.

If there was one big surprise in this campaign I couldn't even entertain as a possibility it was the meteoric rise and fall of Harris. I don't know what that says about the immediate future or long term future. McCain carried his own luggage to New Hampshire. The upcoming debate is really, really, really critical for her. What's your prediction...over now, over then, over after Iowa, NH or last gasp in SC? Can she hang on till California?


LeafReport 73M

11/3/2019 3:22 am

    Quoting sparkleflit:
    What a deal......Two airheads for the price of one.....


jiminycricket1 73M
13732 posts
11/3/2019 5:03 am

    Quoting LeafReport:
    Hiya Cricket. When are we going to get Mahomes back...grrr

    Well there you go again...LOL How many times do I have to remind me of all my correct predictions? Remember impeachment?

    I think we see the country differently because of where we both live. I've been on the east coast for over 30 years now and spent 4 in Denver. The Mid-Atlantic region is all politics all the time so I grant you I view the dynamics differently. Virginia has an election on Tuesday and I'm betting that this will put the nail in the coffin for the GOP as Democrats take full control of the State Legislature. Big time changes are coming to health care, gun control, infrastructure and the minimum wage. Washington never ignores Virginia, we just don't let them. There's a reason Virginia has produced more Presidents than any other state. It's been frustrating for Virginia voters trying to push out these corrupt right wing stingy gun nut racist fascists. I'm hoping we finally get er done.

    Amy is competent yes, inspiring no. Boring yes, persuasive no. I could go on and on. America benefits with her in the senate. It's where she belongs and I'm fine with her staying there awhile. I wouldn't tap her for VP and I don't think anybody in the race will either but she could wiggle into the conversation. I'll listen to the arguments...and I'm listening to yours. I don't think you make your case however because I still feel that you are misreading the electorate. But I'll keep talking to you about it.

    It's true some people do not like Warren. This isn't the "inspiring" election as I've said. That comes next time. This is a fight between bulldogs. That is not going to change. Voters will settle for calm rational governance...but that comes later, AFTER the vote. This is what you just can't see. The only thing I can see that could possibly tame the coming fist fight is if the polls clearly show the gig is up for McConnell. I'm not convinced it is unfortunately. Kentucky's election Tuesday gives us a peek...and McConnell's bullshit over impeachment will tell us more still.

    Don't get me wrong...I don't want a perpetual political fight...but I do want an end to the one we're already in. There's still too much ass kicking that has to happen. This is not Gerald Ford's America Cricket. I would be the first to stand with you if I believed true bi-partisan governance for the good of the country could emerge. Just not going to happen. Warren will advance the debate far better than anybody else. That's why she's the best pick AT THIS TIME. Her presidency will shape the future of the country. A Trump reelection won't do that but it will accelerate the nation's decline and make things far more expensive and difficult to clean up. The legacy of lies will leave a terrible mess behind as our generation passes away. That 'reality' is why this election and the ensuing governance is going to be fight. Amy is not going to lead that with a yellow legal pad and a pencil.

    As for everyone else....Booker has proven that this isn't the inspiring race. If that message doesn't resonate, and it hasn't, no inspiring message will. Biden does know how to fight, so you can't rule him out. However, he does indeed struggle to communicate in the present 'reality'. That might be the unforgivable sin this time around. The thing about Mayor Pete, and his brilliant political play this week...is that the play does nothing for him in the end. It's not going to happen. I think he needs to complete his term, pack his bags and move...possibly to Georgia and run for Governor somewhere. He has to get out of Indiana. He needs to relocate to a purple or leaning purple state. That's what cements his political future...otherwise he lives a quiet life and becomes a trivia question on how to spell and pronounce his name. The nation will move on without him. But I respect the guy a lot.

    Bernie...I'm so done with him now but he just won't go away. His campaign is exactly why I hate caucus states. He has served his purpose.

    If there was one big surprise in this campaign I couldn't even entertain as a possibility it was the meteoric rise and fall of Harris. I don't know what that says about the immediate future or long term future. McCain carried his own luggage to New Hampshire. The upcoming debate is really, really, really critical for her. What's your prediction...over now, over then, over after Iowa, NH or last gasp in SC? Can she hang on till California?
You have too much of an ideological preference.. It's taints your ability to see the real America.

We know that 46% of Democrats DO NOT call themselves LIBERAL.. So what do you think they are..?

You going to fall into the trap set by Trump.. that opposition to him, makes you a liberal socialist? Do you believe that?
Do you fall into the trap that a "label defines who a person is?

What i see is about 20% are Liberal about 20% are Conservatives.. and the rest of country doesn't give a shit about ideology. The idea that a "labeled" ideology.. of 20% of the people.. gives them each the same mindset.. BIG Ideas and Big Plans... and CONTROL...... In each 20%, their goal is to Control the other 80%. You fall into that. In both cases of Liberals and Conservatives....YOU CAN"T MAKE IT HAPPEN.

In either case it is the destruction of our Democracy... As it has morphed into fascist Liberalism of fascist Conservatism. Again fascism can be defined... As Making it happen.

You have fallen into the trap of believing....Guns control, abortions,voting rights, entitlements, racism, healthcare, and immigration.....Can be defined through the "Label" of Liberalism and Conservatism... And with that label.. you become exclusionary and fascist.

You think you are "saving" our democracy.. You are just as responsible for it's downfall as those fascists who started all this shit.

"Amy is competent yes, inspiring no. Boring yes, persuasive no"

Absolutely right!

Don't get me wrong...I don't want a perpetual political fight...but I do want an end to the one we're already in. There's still too much ass kicking that has to happen. This is not Gerald Ford's America Cricket. I would be the first to stand with you if I believed true bi-partisan governance for the good of the country could emerge.

Can't happen if you can't believe it. Can't happen if you don't elect it. Can't happen if you really don't want to, and see the advantage of NOT.

My gosh.. you want to save US....do it with respect and trust
Elect politician who understand it and believe it.. If you listen, you can hear it in their words. see it on the faces..They aren't waving, flags, Inspiring a fight, or telling you what YOU should do...
Yet no matter what side your on.. Instead.. you call them.....traitors, losers, soft, and give ins to your opposition......

BIG PLANS, BIG IDEAS, COURAGE AND TAKING CONTROL..
WTF? DO YOU THINK THAT MEANS?


jiminycricket1 73M
13732 posts
11/3/2019 6:51 am

"Don't get me wrong...I don't want a perpetual political fight...but I do want an end to the one we're already in."

So do I....But I mean it...you don't... You got conditions for it.. I don't.

I don't believe I just want it to happen.. I believe it has to happen.. I believe that no matter what I want.. It's going to happen...... No conditions, No ideology and just NO TRUMP...There is only ONE DEVIL.. and I have looked into his heart.

I'd be TOTALLY satisfied if we just put Trump into Prison.. Send Him to Hell...

Trump is the catalyst.. for a favored fascism. ..No matter which side you are on. .. You get f*cked... you think it's bad, for You... it's ten times worse for his supporters. When they find out the TRUTH..There is one big fallacy in Trump's thinking.. He thinks his supporters will stay dumbed down. It's a miscalculation to believe that... The only thing Trump can NOW do... is smarten them up.
It's the same vain they operate.. his supporters, at this point, don't care, about who is using who. they think they got some control from under the bus...
It's that they NOW CHOOSE to be dumb.. When their light goes on.. Trump's light will GO OUT.
And you know what? I don't HAVE to be the one that flips the switch.

He's singularly different. Than those who would destroy US.. he's different than those who support him (they don't understand).. He goes beyond, one of those who would inadvertently destroy our democracy.

HE is a criminal, and he is Treasonous.
He doesn't just want our destruction, so he can rise to the top.... He embodies it.
HE IS OUR DESTRUCTION.

You got to know by Now what he thinks.. Above the law, total control, no mistakes, no obstruction, no collusion, No quid pro Quo, no investigations, No indictment, no questioning, No OVERSIGHT..No equal branches of government..No TRUTH
Trump isn't just the President of the United State.. He thinks what's good him is good for America. He thinks, he can do no wrong.. He thinks by election, we gave him our RIGHTS.. He doesn't just think he's the President of America..
He thinks .. HE IS AMERICA...
He thinks you GOT to get on board... or get off the BUS
You're either under his thumb.. or put under the BUS.

HOW much evidence Does one NEED?

.


Seattlechick8 67F

11/3/2019 3:54 pm

ET 4 Yrs Ago Sunday Nite MANY Saw You Replying
To Yourself Using 2 Diff Handles -Liszt And Maisie And
Dan Noticed It Then Everyone Else On Here Saw It
Funny YOU forgot That Night
The Debate Went On For Weeks After
Proof was in The Pudding That Night

Don’t Make It A Trump Issue
Way Before HE was Elected
And I Didn’t Even Vote For Him lol


LeafReport 73M

11/4/2019 1:41 am

    Quoting jiminycricket1:
    You have too much of an ideological preference.. It's taints your ability to see the real America.

    We know that 46% of Democrats DO NOT call themselves LIBERAL.. So what do you think they are..?

    You going to fall into the trap set by Trump.. that opposition to him, makes you a liberal socialist? Do you believe that?
    Do you fall into the trap that a "label defines who a person is?

    What i see is about 20% are Liberal about 20% are Conservatives.. and the rest of country doesn't give a shit about ideology. The idea that a "labeled" ideology.. of 20% of the people.. gives them each the same mindset.. BIG Ideas and Big Plans... and CONTROL...... In each 20%, their goal is to Control the other 80%. You fall into that. In both cases of Liberals and Conservatives....YOU CAN"T MAKE IT HAPPEN.

    In either case it is the destruction of our Democracy... As it has morphed into fascist Liberalism of fascist Conservatism. Again fascism can be defined... As Making it happen.

    You have fallen into the trap of believing....Guns control, abortions,voting rights, entitlements, racism, healthcare, and immigration.....Can be defined through the "Label" of Liberalism and Conservatism... And with that label.. you become exclusionary and fascist.

    You think you are "saving" our democracy.. You are just as responsible for it's downfall as those fascists who started all this shit.

    "Amy is competent yes, inspiring no. Boring yes, persuasive no"

    Absolutely right!

    Don't get me wrong...I don't want a perpetual political fight...but I do want an end to the one we're already in. There's still too much ass kicking that has to happen. This is not Gerald Ford's America Cricket. I would be the first to stand with you if I believed true bi-partisan governance for the good of the country could emerge.

    Can't happen if you can't believe it. Can't happen if you don't elect it. Can't happen if you really don't want to, and see the advantage of NOT.

    My gosh.. you want to save US....do it with respect and trust
    Elect politician who understand it and believe it.. If you listen, you can hear it in their words. see it on the faces..They aren't waving, flags, Inspiring a fight, or telling you what YOU should do...
    Yet no matter what side your on.. Instead.. you call them.....traitors, losers, soft, and give ins to your opposition......

    BIG PLANS, BIG IDEAS, COURAGE AND TAKING CONTROL..
    WTF? DO YOU THINK THAT MEANS?
I think you'd benefit from listening more with a little less of the panic you feel. I'm not disputing the fire in the barn but you'll call 911 and forget to tell them where you are. That's the risk of wandering aimlessly.

I agree with the 20%/20%. But it's not simple math. Some of the 80% are fat and some are skinny and the bulk of them are vulnerable when Little Caesar's puts pepperoni on sale for 5 bucks. This is what I mean by having a grasp of the electorate. If pepperoni was 10 bucks and only the cheese was 5 bucks what would be the result? I wonder how you would answer that question? It's an interesting test and if you stop and evaluate your instinctive answer you'll discover that there really was not answer at all. The electorate presents much the same sort of political question. James Carville's infamous phrase, "It's the economy stupid" is not the one size fits all analytical tool. If the choice was pizza or prunes it might be relevant. But that's not the choice here. Fascism isn't about choice, democracy is.

It's not enough Cricket to just listen to the candidates yourself. You have to think about who the voters are, WHAT they are listening for and who they are listening to. Only then can you interpret what the tea leaves are telling you. The trap you speak of is the one you've created for yourself. It's roots come from panic.

Years ago I was a devoted fan of Dallas on TV. I missed the first couple of years but once hooked I stayed until the end. Of all the shows I watched one scene resonated above all others and I never forgot it. Bobby was whining to his father Jock about the power that Jock had given him to run Ewing Oil. Jock cut him off in an unmistakable and stern way saying...."real power is not something someone gives you, its something you take". How does one not hear that? Mitch McConnell knows that, Nancy Pelosi does too. The voters demonstrated they knew that in the 2018 mid-terms. Are the voters 'asking' the current candidates for change or do they intend to 'take' the change they want? It's not Gerald Ford's America Cricket. Until you see things clearly enough to see the nuances you won't be able to read the electorate, and you won't be able to see WHAT they intend to TAKE. The REAL power is not in the how of it.


Seattlechick8 67F

11/4/2019 1:44 am

ET this is the first Time In All Those Yrs I
Brought it up sweetheart lol
And I capatalize Only To piss you liberals Off
And You all Fall For It Every Time
I’m Enjoying It Actually


Seattlechick8 67F

11/4/2019 1:54 am

And You Liberals Demean Liszt All The Time
For Not Being Smart-Ding Dong Dummy
He’s A Helluva Lot Smarter Then YOU And All Your
Left Wingers In Here Combined
And You Hardly Did That 2nd Handle As A Joke
YOU got so pissed That Night Maisie And Liszt And Dan
Brought It Up For Days You Came On Saying How Dare They?
You’ve Only Always Had 1 Handle In Here-Baloney


LeafReport 73M

11/4/2019 2:16 am

    Quoting Seattlechick8:
    ET this is the first Time In All Those Yrs I
    Brought it up sweetheart lol
    And I capatalize Only To piss you liberals Off
    And You all Fall For It Every Time
    I’m Enjoying It Actually
Well...at least its not a mattress surrounded by hookers in a Russian hotel room.


jiminycricket1 73M
13732 posts
11/4/2019 6:35 am

    Quoting LeafReport:
    I think you'd benefit from listening more with a little less of the panic you feel. I'm not disputing the fire in the barn but you'll call 911 and forget to tell them where you are. That's the risk of wandering aimlessly.

    I agree with the 20%/20%. But it's not simple math. Some of the 80% are fat and some are skinny and the bulk of them are vulnerable when Little Caesar's puts pepperoni on sale for 5 bucks. This is what I mean by having a grasp of the electorate. If pepperoni was 10 bucks and only the cheese was 5 bucks what would be the result? I wonder how you would answer that question? It's an interesting test and if you stop and evaluate your instinctive answer you'll discover that there really was not answer at all. The electorate presents much the same sort of political question. James Carville's infamous phrase, "It's the economy stupid" is not the one size fits all analytical tool. If the choice was pizza or prunes it might be relevant. But that's not the choice here. Fascism isn't about choice, democracy is.

    It's not enough Cricket to just listen to the candidates yourself. You have to think about who the voters are, WHAT they are listening for and who they are listening to. Only then can you interpret what the tea leaves are telling you. The trap you speak of is the one you've created for yourself. It's roots come from panic.

    Years ago I was a devoted fan of Dallas on TV. I missed the first couple of years but once hooked I stayed until the end. Of all the shows I watched one scene resonated above all others and I never forgot it. Bobby was whining to his father Jock about the power that Jock had given him to run Ewing Oil. Jock cut him off in an unmistakable and stern way saying...."real power is not something someone gives you, its something you take". How does one not hear that? Mitch McConnell knows that, Nancy Pelosi does too. The voters demonstrated they knew that in the 2018 mid-terms. Are the voters 'asking' the current candidates for change or do they intend to 'take' the change they want? It's not Gerald Ford's America Cricket. Until you see things clearly enough to see the nuances you won't be able to read the electorate, and you won't be able to see WHAT they intend to TAKE. The REAL power is not in the how of it.
You are better than most.. but still you have a failure to see beyond the words. It's hard to see different mindsets. Our equality and commonality rests within our own mindset that excludes all others...

" Bobby was whining to his father Jock about the power that Jock had given him to run Ewing Oil. Jock cut him off in an unmistakable and stern way saying...."real power is not something someone gives you, its something you take". How does one not hear that? "

Interesting view???? of your mindset...And your commonality with those you seem to oppose. When REAL power is given and not something you take.

For example.
The responsibility for power taken..Is to yourself... And getting the power is not that hard .. Because it can be both real and imaginary.. Either way. It's not about taking the power it's about keeping the power. The once incomprehensible ideas invoked of the what and how to keep the power.

The idea that once taken, it becomes an entitlement.. Earned power.
You don't give power to the "sheep", who could give it to you. Once you've TAKEN it. I never say we are going to take the power from Trump... I say WE are going to take the power back

The ideas of different ideologies... have their commonality too. Good intentions or bad, right or wrong, truth and lies....become personal choices.. that are reflected in One OWN mindset..And then truth.. becomes Lies and Lies become the truth...All in the name of POWER.. Dalhberg, i think said it.. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. You think that has to do with what someone does? When What has nothing to do with it..Doing it for the wrong reasons or the right reasons doesn't matter.. it's STILL is Corruption. It has to do with how someone thinks.

So when it comes down to it... You join the club of anti-democracy, distrust, being Un-American Again, it's not WHAT you think..It's HOW you think about it.

The American Ideology.... is that...When POWER is given.. The Power goes to the power giver. The responsibility to KEEP that power... IS NOT YOURS.

Despite all the evidence to the contrary.. all the power keepers... All the distrust, all the destruction, all the moral failures. And my belief that I can get something back, that I never really had.. May seem like I got my head in the clouds..

But if I'm going to choose a Big Idea, and Big Plan, and take Control Back..
That's what I want. It's has always been America's unfinished business, and I ain't giving up on finishing it. Before, I move on to other "windmills"


jiminycricket1 73M
13732 posts
11/4/2019 11:37 am

"I think we see the country differently because of where we both live. I've been on the east coast for over 30 years now and spent 4 in Denver. The Mid-Atlantic region is all politics all the time so I grant you I view the dynamics differently."

Leaf... The fallacy of the phallic mind.

let me give you my truism.. about WHAT that is, about where you live, about how much money you got. and your political ideology.. About your beauty and your ugliness..About your job, and About your friends and even about your family.

Who You Are....is WHAT you are.
But WHAT you are.... ain't who you are.


LeafReport 73M

11/4/2019 2:59 pm

    Quoting jiminycricket1:
    You are better than most.. but still you have a failure to see beyond the words. It's hard to see different mindsets. Our equality and commonality rests within our own mindset that excludes all others...

    " Bobby was whining to his father Jock about the power that Jock had given him to run Ewing Oil. Jock cut him off in an unmistakable and stern way saying...."real power is not something someone gives you, its something you take". How does one not hear that? "

    Interesting view???? of your mindset...And your commonality with those you seem to oppose. When REAL power is given and not something you take.

    For example.
    The responsibility for power taken..Is to yourself... And getting the power is not that hard .. Because it can be both real and imaginary.. Either way. It's not about taking the power it's about keeping the power. The once incomprehensible ideas invoked of the what and how to keep the power.

    The idea that once taken, it becomes an entitlement.. Earned power.
    You don't give power to the "sheep", who could give it to you. Once you've TAKEN it. I never say we are going to take the power from Trump... I say WE are going to take the power back

    The ideas of different ideologies... have their commonality too. Good intentions or bad, right or wrong, truth and lies....become personal choices.. that are reflected in One OWN mindset..And then truth.. becomes Lies and Lies become the truth...All in the name of POWER.. Dalhberg, i think said it.. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. You think that has to do with what someone does? When What has nothing to do with it..Doing it for the wrong reasons or the right reasons doesn't matter.. it's STILL is Corruption. It has to do with how someone thinks.

    So when it comes down to it... You join the club of anti-democracy, distrust, being Un-American Again, it's not WHAT you think..It's HOW you think about it.

    The American Ideology.... is that...When POWER is given.. The Power goes to the power giver. The responsibility to KEEP that power... IS NOT YOURS.

    Despite all the evidence to the contrary.. all the power keepers... All the distrust, all the destruction, all the moral failures. And my belief that I can get something back, that I never really had.. May seem like I got my head in the clouds..

    But if I'm going to choose a Big Idea, and Big Plan, and take Control Back..
    That's what I want. It's has always been America's unfinished business, and I ain't giving up on finishing it. Before, I move on to other "windmills"
Well Cricket Jock's whole point, and mine, was that real power is NOT imaginary. I think your whole argument simply falls completely apart because you will not, or cannot, come to terms with the reality of the voter's mindset. Until you do that I'm afraid you will continue to wander around aimlessly. It might be interesting if you rewrote the above with the vision Jock gave Bobby.


jiminycricket1 73M
13732 posts
11/4/2019 4:01 pm

Are you losing your mind?

Imaginary power? What do you think that is.. There is only power.. One who takes or one who gives it.. is what is imaginary...You take imaginary power or you give imaginary power... Either way it's Not real power.
That is your mistake you think you can TAKE real power.. For example an "executor" has the power to take a life. But the real power is given to be the executor. Without it, he's just a murderer.

Trump was given the power to be the President. He took that power and became a criminal. He wasn't given the power to be a criminal.. So, he has no REAL power.

Real power comes from both...the power that is given is the power you take. Again it's the what and the how..

If You take power....It becomes about you....Your ability to take power is not the same as your ability to execute the power you're given. And executor can become a criminal... but a criminal can't become an "executor"

Now I imagine you're really confused.

The opposite example..

Trump was given real power... but took imaginary power
And the real power Trump has taken.. was imaginably given.

So you think i don't understand the voter...?

You think trump was given real power.. ..Not so..he was given his own imaginary power.. That for many voters in 2016 was imaginable.....But for most voters, Now, has become unimaginable. You think as President, Trump has 'real power, Not so, he has no power over me... I have NOT given it to him, and i won't let him take it.
You pretend he has real power, you pretend he has power over you. you pretend we gave him the power he has.. Only so YOU or Elizabeth Warren can TAKE IT and make it YOURS

Jock wasn't negating that he gave him the power.. He wasn't absolving him for the way of taking the power. He was challenging him to take the power that was given to him. That the power given, means nothing.... Without How you use it.


LeafReport 73M

11/5/2019 2:28 am

    Quoting jiminycricket1:
    Are you losing your mind?

    Imaginary power? What do you think that is.. There is only power.. One who takes or one who gives it.. is what is imaginary...You take imaginary power or you give imaginary power... Either way it's Not real power.
    That is your mistake you think you can TAKE real power.. For example an "executor" has the power to take a life. But the real power is given to be the executor. Without it, he's just a murderer.

    Trump was given the power to be the President. He took that power and became a criminal. He wasn't given the power to be a criminal.. So, he has no REAL power.

    Real power comes from both...the power that is given is the power you take. Again it's the what and the how..

    If You take power....It becomes about you....Your ability to take power is not the same as your ability to execute the power you're given. And executor can become a criminal... but a criminal can't become an "executor"

    Now I imagine you're really confused.

    The opposite example..

    Trump was given real power... but took imaginary power
    And the real power Trump has taken.. was imaginably given.

    So you think i don't understand the voter...?

    You think trump was given real power.. ..Not so..he was given his own imaginary power.. That for many voters in 2016 was imaginable.....But for most voters, Now, has become unimaginable. You think as President, Trump has 'real power, Not so, he has no power over me... I have NOT given it to him, and i won't let him take it.
    You pretend he has real power, you pretend he has power over you. you pretend we gave him the power he has.. Only so YOU or Elizabeth Warren can TAKE IT and make it YOURS

    Jock wasn't negating that he gave him the power.. He wasn't absolving him for the way of taking the power. He was challenging him to take the power that was given to him. That the power given, means nothing.... Without How you use it.
Well you seem to be trying to get there but it feels like more of an effort to invent rationale that is frankly leading nowhere instead of recognizing the reality, and the complexity, of where the voters are. That's a very important premise here to acknowledge because impeachment has temporarily frozen the debate. This is the number #1 reason I've been so strongly behind an impeachment movement in the first place. I see it as an avenue, our best choice, to reassert institutional power and hopefully stop the slide into fascism before it is too late. Impeachment can succeed in that endeavor in large part because the power to do it does not reside with the voters. Every day we wait we slip further into the abyss. Just look at what is happening in Britain with Brexit. British politicians would be better off if they just told the nation that inspite of the vote it would be best to stay in the EU. But they just won't do that and look at where they are now...yet another election and I'm betting Johnson loses, and then what? It's not in America's interest to risk further erosion of institutional power, especially with Trump as President. These are dangerous times. I don't even want to think what might have happened had Pelosi resisted impeachment for even another two weeks. We have a national emergency in America. Just yesterday Trump said he wouldn't rule out a government shutdown later this month! CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW? I don't know whether you saw that coming but I sure did. It was obvious from the moment of the last agreement. This was a 'fill in the blank' fight from the outset and now here we are. It should send chills down your spine that reports have now surfaced that republicans are thinking about putting Ohio Congressman Jim Jordan on the Intelligence Committee and potentially booting Nunes as ranking member. This stuff is way beyond the consciousness of the electorate. I feel we are lucky that they are nervous enough to decide to sit on their hands for a bit longer and see how impeachment shakes out. Even if Trump is acquitted that senate trial is important. We have a corrupt Attorney General on top of all this. Fake power dissipates, real power comes from surrender. Holding onto power is not an irrelevant matter. You are correct about that. But it is the voter nuances, the geography of where they live, the cultural divide, their economic realities that always tip the balance. It's a complicated mess out there now and with the stakes so high and freedom on the line its critical to grasp the reality and shape strategy people have confidence in. New polls in the battleground states are scary.


jiminycricket1 73M
13732 posts
11/5/2019 5:49 am

First don't believe the polls.. they don't factor the "against". factor..I don't need a poll to tell me what's going on or what's going to happen.. the only Democrat polls that matters is the same as the national polls for Trump.. Not who is for Trump but who is adamantly against Trump.. It's the same kind of poll for Elizabeth Warren, she leads all Democrat Candidates in the against factor.

I listen to people, and try to without prejudice..
People I once thought of as nuts, can change that opinion.
Anthony Scaramucci, is one of those people....Others have said it..
In this environment.. "Democrats are their own worst enemy." Bill Maher said it too.

Your candidate, Elizabeth Warren becomes the poster child for a Republican victory.
I have no doubt that underhandedly they are supporting her.. Why, because if she gets the nomination.. Her campaign has no where to go. If she pushes it nationally she loses. If she tries the more moderate approach she loses. Which is what she will do if she gets the nomination. She will be her own "hand grenade" that blows up.her Big Ideas, her Big plans, her courage, and her control.
The politicians like Bernie Sanders and Octavia Cortez, as oppose to Elizabeth Warren, are honest...They can't change there approach to WIN.. Elizabeth Warren will.
I don't need you say let's see....if it happens
I know it already..
You said that Amy Klobuchar...can get things done, but is NOT inspiring, and is Not persuasive.
You're absolutely right.
Elizabeth Warren.. Will try to get HER things done..and she is inspiring and persuasive....But Her big ideas and big plan.. she can't complete.
What happens then?
Being inspiring and persuasive works on a captive audience...
For her and her big ideas and big plan will NOT be inspiring and persuasive to a National audience. She will HAVE TO change IT..

Okay we talked about power.. giving it and taking it. What will make Trump different than Putin? The answer... America
Why can't Trump, do what Putin does? ...America is NOT Russia.
What will make Us NOT GIVE TRUMP the Power.. That Russia has given Putin.

Their are two ways Power can be effective, both involve giving...First it's in the giving it. They have the Power if you give it to them

In Russia....Second is the power, they have over someone.. That use of power that forces Russian to GIVE IN.. Easily because they know... no other way.

Maybe America will change..but not today..
Americans and America..... DON'T "Give In" to power.


jiminycricket1 73M
13732 posts
11/5/2019 6:32 am

You say i don't know American voters..

Well here's the truth about that.

First, the American voter is far more Conservative than they are Liberal. Maybe Not by your definition of Conservative and Liberal..but by mine

Second, although the American voter is self serving....they are NOT elitist.

Third the American voter...has the "underdog" mentality...Americans love it when the underdog wins.

Fourth.. the American voter, doesn't "give in" to power..real or imaginary. If Trump was to be able to invoke his power without opposition.. His supporters would turn on him.. faster than you can say Pocahontas

You don't get it.. "Democrats are their own worst enemy"


LeafReport 73M

11/5/2019 10:51 am

    Quoting jiminycricket1:
    You say i don't know American voters..

    Well here's the truth about that.

    First, the American voter is far more Conservative than they are Liberal. Maybe Not by your definition of Conservative and Liberal..but by mine

    Second, although the American voter is self serving....they are NOT elitist.

    Third the American voter...has the "underdog" mentality...Americans love it when the underdog wins.

    Fourth.. the American voter, doesn't "give in" to power..real or imaginary. If Trump was to be able to invoke his power without opposition.. His supporters would turn on him.. faster than you can say Pocahontas

    You don't get it.. "Democrats are their own worst enemy"
Well I think you just confirmed my suspicions but I do not have time to elaborate. I will later however. For now without addressing nuances that I've written extensively about your assumptions or conclusions and its impact on the campaign and the nation are utterly useless and pointless. Go back to the drawing board and let's take this deeper. Only then will you have any hope whatsoever of understanding the electorate. I'm not personally part of that debate...I have my candidate. Not supporting Warren is stupid at this juncture and ignorant of what needs to happen nationally. America is certainly capable of stupid. The objective here is to head off fascism and you keep wandering off aimlessly instead of analyzing the risks and strategies the players are deploying. A


jiminycricket1 73M
13732 posts
11/5/2019 2:58 pm

    Quoting LeafReport:
    Well I think you just confirmed my suspicions but I do not have time to elaborate. I will later however. For now without addressing nuances that I've written extensively about your assumptions or conclusions and its impact on the campaign and the nation are utterly useless and pointless. Go back to the drawing board and let's take this deeper. Only then will you have any hope whatsoever of understanding the electorate. I'm not personally part of that debate...I have my candidate. Not supporting Warren is stupid at this juncture and ignorant of what needs to happen nationally. America is certainly capable of stupid. The objective here is to head off fascism and you keep wandering off aimlessly instead of analyzing the risks and strategies the players are deploying. A
Swing voters represent 15% of the electorate.. these undecided voters will determine the election. But they have decided somethings? Polling show there is only one Democrat candidate, that with these voters is upside down against Trump

For now, these persuadable voters in battleground states have a favorable view of former Vice President Joe Biden and Sen. Bernie Sanders, but not of Sen. Elizabeth Warren, our polling shows.


LeafReport 73M

11/6/2019 3:38 am

    Quoting jiminycricket1:
    Swing voters represent 15% of the electorate.. these undecided voters will determine the election. But they have decided somethings? Polling show there is only one Democrat candidate, that with these voters is upside down against Trump

    For now, these persuadable voters in battleground states have a favorable view of former Vice President Joe Biden and Sen. Bernie Sanders, but not of Sen. Elizabeth Warren, our polling shows.


Good Morning Cricket. To begin with broad perceptions of the electorate aren't useful today. One reason for that is that the parties now have the money and sophisticated tools to raise it. and also to analyze voter concerns and shape their political agenda accordingly. That's both good and bad for the country. The Trump campaign, whomever was really responsible, was pretty smart to figure out what they needed to do to win in Michigan and Pennsylvania. I can't even fault the Clinton campaign for not figuring out what was at stake. It was truly a stunning success, and also a dangerous precedent given the subversive motives of foreign influence to help pull it off. A candidates message alone is never really enough. It's both what you say to voters and where you say it. I don't even believe in the concept of wave elections. What I do believe in however, is the power of a constituency to persuade or significantly alter the perceptions of voters elsewhere in the country. It's often been said that what begins in California eventually sweeps across the country. That is still true. Some things take longer than others of course and America also learns from the mistakes made by states. Both of those realities shape voter sentiment. It rarely comes from Washington. The exceptions would be foreign affairs, corruption and gridlock. Washington knows how to make voters angry. One of the things I like about Virginia politics is that we vote in off years for Governor. Fewer distractions seems to cleanse the campaigns just enough so you have a clear distinction as to whose agenda is right for the times. It allows the state a measure of independence so it doesn't become overly entangled with national policy pursuits. We can jump in when times are good or go in a different direction if we see storms approaching. I've seen first hand several times how that benefited the state but unfortunately the record isn't perfect. I've come to see the wisdom in the off year elections. It is distressing when it leads to lower turnout because more often than not it leads to mistakes. America just gets it right when more people vote.

So -- for example, it may be true that Americans are more conservative than liberal. So in a broad way lets separate them into a constituency, We've had two elections in recent years where the winner has lost the popular vote and the margin was nearly 3 million in 2016. Just last night voter participation in the off year Virginia election in Virginia's largest city was up by a whopping 32%. Let that sink in for a moment. To predict such a turnout would have been seen as wildly optimistic, UNLESS one had a deep grasp of voter sentiment, WHAT they want and more specifically, what they DEMAND. Unless you are a party insider, and I am not, it would be hard to reliably grasp what the sentiment is all across the country. That's not what I'm expecting of voters as they decide on whom to support for the presidency. I like to think I do not waste my vote if the reality is I voted for someone who ultimately loses. A smart politician pays attention to the opposition. They don't see the opposition as the enemy as Trump does. That is part of the problem with American politics today. Now, let's say our imaginary constituency represents the for corners of the nation, the Northwest, Southern California, Florida and the New England states. It's quite obvious that the concerns of those voters are incredibly diverse. What is the gender breakdown of that constituency? Where does the vision come from? Where is the wisdom? Who is driven by hope and who is driven by fear? It just doesn't take much for a political agenda to become either murky or so lacking in substance voters stay home. On a national scale the politics of it becomes almost unmanageable. It's tempting to throw in the towel and that's when we get into really deep trouble, as we are now the assault upon our institutions and our slide into fascism. Never in my life did I ever think, after Watergate, that there would be this level of defiance in not honoring congressional subpoenas. Tack on a corrupt Attorney General, the refusal of the senate to honor a president's choice for a Supreme Court vacancy vote and foreign influence and you have to believe voters heads are spinning here. They don't know what the truth is. On that point I think we agree. But I would argue when you take all that in, add to it the concerns in the four corners of the country and what do you think is the consensus ---knowing that the majority of the voters are women? What tips the balance for them is not what tips the balance for men. Students can make a huge difference in some states and have little influence in others. The bottom line is that its critical to AVOID generalizing the electorate. Those days are obsolete Cricket. Details matter more than ever in our society. Employers look at facebook and twitter posts. Consumers refuse to pay regular price for many things. People drive and talk on the phone at the same time. Google reads the news while you eat breakfast and then turns off the lights when you leave and adjusts the thermostat. It's a different, and a complicated electorate in America. I think a one-size fits all campaign is doomed to failure. The next president's mandate will be to help the country with the transformation that is inevitable. Voters in Virginia made that very clear last night. Things like trade wars, walls, international genocide and using foreign thugs to take down American citizens is not where American women in the four corners of the country are. There are so many constituencies in America that you simply cannot credibly argue voter sentiment, and who will resonate and who will not, without knowing the WHAT the voters are listening for. This is why Warren has been successful so far. Even if she loses, America wins when politicians actually listen, even to voters who stubbornly will not, because they pull the country in the direction it needs to go. Voters help themselves, and the country, when they pay attention when an alligator wanders onto their neighbors front porch.


jiminycricket1 73M
13732 posts
11/6/2019 11:13 am

    Quoting LeafReport:
    Good Morning Cricket. To begin with broad perceptions of the electorate aren't useful today. One reason for that is that the parties now have the money and sophisticated tools to raise it. and also to analyze voter concerns and shape their political agenda accordingly. That's both good and bad for the country. The Trump campaign, whomever was really responsible, was pretty smart to figure out what they needed to do to win in Michigan and Pennsylvania. I can't even fault the Clinton campaign for not figuring out what was at stake. It was truly a stunning success, and also a dangerous precedent given the subversive motives of foreign influence to help pull it off. A candidates message alone is never really enough. It's both what you say to voters and where you say it. I don't even believe in the concept of wave elections. What I do believe in however, is the power of a constituency to persuade or significantly alter the perceptions of voters elsewhere in the country. It's often been said that what begins in California eventually sweeps across the country. That is still true. Some things take longer than others of course and America also learns from the mistakes made by states. Both of those realities shape voter sentiment. It rarely comes from Washington. The exceptions would be foreign affairs, corruption and gridlock. Washington knows how to make voters angry. One of the things I like about Virginia politics is that we vote in off years for Governor. Fewer distractions seems to cleanse the campaigns just enough so you have a clear distinction as to whose agenda is right for the times. It allows the state a measure of independence so it doesn't become overly entangled with national policy pursuits. We can jump in when times are good or go in a different direction if we see storms approaching. I've seen first hand several times how that benefited the state but unfortunately the record isn't perfect. I've come to see the wisdom in the off year elections. It is distressing when it leads to lower turnout because more often than not it leads to mistakes. America just gets it right when more people vote.

    So -- for example, it may be true that Americans are more conservative than liberal. So in a broad way lets separate them into a constituency, We've had two elections in recent years where the winner has lost the popular vote and the margin was nearly 3 million in 2016. Just last night voter participation in the off year Virginia election in Virginia's largest city was up by a whopping 32%. Let that sink in for a moment. To predict such a turnout would have been seen as wildly optimistic, UNLESS one had a deep grasp of voter sentiment, WHAT they want and more specifically, what they DEMAND. Unless you are a party insider, and I am not, it would be hard to reliably grasp what the sentiment is all across the country. That's not what I'm expecting of voters as they decide on whom to support for the presidency. I like to think I do not waste my vote if the reality is I voted for someone who ultimately loses. A smart politician pays attention to the opposition. They don't see the opposition as the enemy as Trump does. That is part of the problem with American politics today. Now, let's say our imaginary constituency represents the for corners of the nation, the Northwest, Southern California, Florida and the New England states. It's quite obvious that the concerns of those voters are incredibly diverse. What is the gender breakdown of that constituency? Where does the vision come from? Where is the wisdom? Who is driven by hope and who is driven by fear? It just doesn't take much for a political agenda to become either murky or so lacking in substance voters stay home. On a national scale the politics of it becomes almost unmanageable. It's tempting to throw in the towel and that's when we get into really deep trouble, as we are now the assault upon our institutions and our slide into fascism. Never in my life did I ever think, after Watergate, that there would be this level of defiance in not honoring congressional subpoenas. Tack on a corrupt Attorney General, the refusal of the senate to honor a president's choice for a Supreme Court vacancy vote and foreign influence and you have to believe voters heads are spinning here. They don't know what the truth is. On that point I think we agree. But I would argue when you take all that in, add to it the concerns in the four corners of the country and what do you think is the consensus ---knowing that the majority of the voters are women? What tips the balance for them is not what tips the balance for men. Students can make a huge difference in some states and have little influence in others. The bottom line is that its critical to AVOID generalizing the electorate. Those days are obsolete Cricket. Details matter more than ever in our society. Employers look at facebook and twitter posts. Consumers refuse to pay regular price for many things. People drive and talk on the phone at the same time. Google reads the news while you eat breakfast and then turns off the lights when you leave and adjusts the thermostat. It's a different, and a complicated electorate in America. I think a one-size fits all campaign is doomed to failure. The next president's mandate will be to help the country with the transformation that is inevitable. Voters in Virginia made that very clear last night. Things like trade wars, walls, international genocide and using foreign thugs to take down American citizens is not where American women in the four corners of the country are. There are so many constituencies in America that you simply cannot credibly argue voter sentiment, and who will resonate and who will not, without knowing the WHAT the voters are listening for. This is why Warren has been successful so far. Even if she loses, America wins when politicians actually listen, even to voters who stubbornly will not, because they pull the country in the direction it needs to go. Voters help themselves, and the country, when they pay attention when an alligator wanders onto their neighbors front porch.
There is a difference between what's right and what's politically right.. with the political division of this country.. What is right plays second fiddle..
To counteract the division, one must seek the common denominator. Not the best answer but the most widely accepted answer.
The more narrow the answer the less accepted.
In healthcare "medicare for all",, may be the right answer, but it's not the politically right answer. The politically right answer is "healthcare for AL"L....how you get there shouldn't matter. Not now, not when the answer is exclusionary.

I'm not saying that Elizabeth Warren doesn't have the right answers...She just doesn't have the politically right answers.
As you would think I don't know the electorate.. Who do you think you are TRUMP?....And express what you think I do or what I don't know..because it what you do, and what you don't know.

You wish to exclude my opinion, because i don't know the electorate..BUT YOU DO. I have at least a clue..your explanation doesn't provide any clue.

In the four corners of this country. their is diversity of opinion. Which you wish to exacerbate and change.. i don't want to change a damn thing..
In the four corners, there is way more commonality than diversity. I want to tap into the commonality.. You want to tap into the diversity. The ideas you have between Liberal and Conservative, or Democrat and Trump supporter.... You do the same thing.....Accentuating the diversity, only expands the diversity..

Let me ask you.... can find the commonality between.... East coaster and west coaster, A northerner and a southerner, an urban dweller and a rural dweller.....a Liberal and a Conservative... A Democrat and a Republican... or a Trump supporter and YOU..?

You want to discuss the issues..Well, you better find it.. and begin it from there.
You better win the "healthcare for all" argument, before you stand a snowballs chance in hell of winning the "Medicare for all" argument.
With the democrat primary and it's voters, you can assume that.. but if it comes to the national election.. you assgumption.. makes an ass out of YOU and
Elizabeth Warren.


jiminycricket1 73M
13732 posts
11/6/2019 11:23 am

    Quoting LeafReport:
    Good Morning Cricket. To begin with broad perceptions of the electorate aren't useful today. One reason for that is that the parties now have the money and sophisticated tools to raise it. and also to analyze voter concerns and shape their political agenda accordingly. That's both good and bad for the country. The Trump campaign, whomever was really responsible, was pretty smart to figure out what they needed to do to win in Michigan and Pennsylvania. I can't even fault the Clinton campaign for not figuring out what was at stake. It was truly a stunning success, and also a dangerous precedent given the subversive motives of foreign influence to help pull it off. A candidates message alone is never really enough. It's both what you say to voters and where you say it. I don't even believe in the concept of wave elections. What I do believe in however, is the power of a constituency to persuade or significantly alter the perceptions of voters elsewhere in the country. It's often been said that what begins in California eventually sweeps across the country. That is still true. Some things take longer than others of course and America also learns from the mistakes made by states. Both of those realities shape voter sentiment. It rarely comes from Washington. The exceptions would be foreign affairs, corruption and gridlock. Washington knows how to make voters angry. One of the things I like about Virginia politics is that we vote in off years for Governor. Fewer distractions seems to cleanse the campaigns just enough so you have a clear distinction as to whose agenda is right for the times. It allows the state a measure of independence so it doesn't become overly entangled with national policy pursuits. We can jump in when times are good or go in a different direction if we see storms approaching. I've seen first hand several times how that benefited the state but unfortunately the record isn't perfect. I've come to see the wisdom in the off year elections. It is distressing when it leads to lower turnout because more often than not it leads to mistakes. America just gets it right when more people vote.

    So -- for example, it may be true that Americans are more conservative than liberal. So in a broad way lets separate them into a constituency, We've had two elections in recent years where the winner has lost the popular vote and the margin was nearly 3 million in 2016. Just last night voter participation in the off year Virginia election in Virginia's largest city was up by a whopping 32%. Let that sink in for a moment. To predict such a turnout would have been seen as wildly optimistic, UNLESS one had a deep grasp of voter sentiment, WHAT they want and more specifically, what they DEMAND. Unless you are a party insider, and I am not, it would be hard to reliably grasp what the sentiment is all across the country. That's not what I'm expecting of voters as they decide on whom to support for the presidency. I like to think I do not waste my vote if the reality is I voted for someone who ultimately loses. A smart politician pays attention to the opposition. They don't see the opposition as the enemy as Trump does. That is part of the problem with American politics today. Now, let's say our imaginary constituency represents the for corners of the nation, the Northwest, Southern California, Florida and the New England states. It's quite obvious that the concerns of those voters are incredibly diverse. What is the gender breakdown of that constituency? Where does the vision come from? Where is the wisdom? Who is driven by hope and who is driven by fear? It just doesn't take much for a political agenda to become either murky or so lacking in substance voters stay home. On a national scale the politics of it becomes almost unmanageable. It's tempting to throw in the towel and that's when we get into really deep trouble, as we are now the assault upon our institutions and our slide into fascism. Never in my life did I ever think, after Watergate, that there would be this level of defiance in not honoring congressional subpoenas. Tack on a corrupt Attorney General, the refusal of the senate to honor a president's choice for a Supreme Court vacancy vote and foreign influence and you have to believe voters heads are spinning here. They don't know what the truth is. On that point I think we agree. But I would argue when you take all that in, add to it the concerns in the four corners of the country and what do you think is the consensus ---knowing that the majority of the voters are women? What tips the balance for them is not what tips the balance for men. Students can make a huge difference in some states and have little influence in others. The bottom line is that its critical to AVOID generalizing the electorate. Those days are obsolete Cricket. Details matter more than ever in our society. Employers look at facebook and twitter posts. Consumers refuse to pay regular price for many things. People drive and talk on the phone at the same time. Google reads the news while you eat breakfast and then turns off the lights when you leave and adjusts the thermostat. It's a different, and a complicated electorate in America. I think a one-size fits all campaign is doomed to failure. The next president's mandate will be to help the country with the transformation that is inevitable. Voters in Virginia made that very clear last night. Things like trade wars, walls, international genocide and using foreign thugs to take down American citizens is not where American women in the four corners of the country are. There are so many constituencies in America that you simply cannot credibly argue voter sentiment, and who will resonate and who will not, without knowing the WHAT the voters are listening for. This is why Warren has been successful so far. Even if she loses, America wins when politicians actually listen, even to voters who stubbornly will not, because they pull the country in the direction it needs to go. Voters help themselves, and the country, when they pay attention when an alligator wanders onto their neighbors front porch.
There is a difference between what's right and what's politically right..
With the political division of this country.. What is right plays second fiddle..
To counteract the division, one must seek the common denominator. Not the best answer but the most widely accepted answer.
The more narrow the answer the less accepted.
In healthcare "Medicare for all",, may be the right answer, but it's not the politically right answer. The politically right answer is "Healthcare for ALL"....how you get there shouldn't matter. Not now, not when the answer is exclusionary.

I'm not saying that Elizabeth Warren doesn't have the right answers...She just doesn't have the politically right answers.
As you would think I don't know the electorate.. Who do you think you are TRUMP?....And express what you think I do or what I don't know..because it what you do, and what you don't know.

You wish to exclude my opinion, because i don't know the electorate..BUT YOU DO. I have at least a clue..your explanation doesn't provide any clue.

In the four corners of this country. their is diversity of opinion. Which you wish to exacerbate and change.. i don't want to change a damn thing..
In the four corners, there is way more commonality than diversity. I want to tap into the commonality.. You want to tap into the diversity. The ideas you have between Liberal and Conservative, or Democrat and Trump supporter.... You do the same thing.....Accentuating the diversity, only expands the diversity..

Let me ask you.... can find the commonality between.... East coaster and west coaster, A northerner and a southerner, an urban dweller and a rural dweller.....a Liberal and a Conservative... A Democrat and a Republican... or a Trump supporter and YOU..?

You want to discuss the issues..Well, you better find it.. and begin it from there.
You better win the "healthcare for all" argument, before you stand a snowballs chance in hell of winning the "Medicare for all" argument.
With the democrat primary and it's voters, you can assume that agreement..
But if it comes to assume the National Election.. your assgumption.. makes an ass out of YOU and Elizabeth Warren.


jiminycricket1 73M
13732 posts
11/6/2019 11:42 am

I wrote about the election yesterday.. Kentucky and Virginia and on the other side Mississippi
You will find a justification, for YOUR positions, when No such justifications exists..

Gun control, racism, income equality, Trump and his Lies, Big business and taxes, Medicare for All, and corruption, weren't on the ballot..

You need to figure out what exactly what was ON the Ballot. That's the commonality
.


LeafReport 73M

11/7/2019 3:00 am

    Quoting jiminycricket1:
    I wrote about the election yesterday.. Kentucky and Virginia and on the other side Mississippi
    You will find a justification, for YOUR positions, when No such justifications exists..

    Gun control, racism, income equality, Trump and his Lies, Big business and taxes, Medicare for All, and corruption, weren't on the ballot..

    You need to figure out what exactly what was ON the Ballot. That's the commonality.
There's always a justification for a vote Cricket the point is its often diverse. It is true that "WHAT" was on the ballot matters. It sure as hell does.


LeafReport 73M

11/7/2019 3:20 am

    Quoting jiminycricket1:
    There is a difference between what's right and what's politically right..
    With the political division of this country.. What is right plays second fiddle..
    To counteract the division, one must seek the common denominator. Not the best answer but the most widely accepted answer.
    The more narrow the answer the less accepted.
    In healthcare "Medicare for all",, may be the right answer, but it's not the politically right answer. The politically right answer is "Healthcare for ALL"....how you get there shouldn't matter. Not now, not when the answer is exclusionary.

    I'm not saying that Elizabeth Warren doesn't have the right answers...She just doesn't have the politically right answers.
    As you would think I don't know the electorate.. Who do you think you are TRUMP?....And express what you think I do or what I don't know..because it what you do, and what you don't know.

    You wish to exclude my opinion, because i don't know the electorate..BUT YOU DO. I have at least a clue..your explanation doesn't provide any clue.

    In the four corners of this country. their is diversity of opinion. Which you wish to exacerbate and change.. i don't want to change a damn thing..
    In the four corners, there is way more commonality than diversity. I want to tap into the commonality.. You want to tap into the diversity. The ideas you have between Liberal and Conservative, or Democrat and Trump supporter.... You do the same thing.....Accentuating the diversity, only expands the diversity..

    Let me ask you.... can find the commonality between.... East coaster and west coaster, A northerner and a southerner, an urban dweller and a rural dweller.....a Liberal and a Conservative... A Democrat and a Republican... or a Trump supporter and YOU..?

    You want to discuss the issues..Well, you better find it.. and begin it from there.
    You better win the "healthcare for all" argument, before you stand a snowballs chance in hell of winning the "Medicare for all" argument.
    With the democrat primary and it's voters, you can assume that agreement..
    But if it comes to assume the National Election.. your assgumption.. makes an ass out of YOU and Elizabeth Warren.
Morning Cricket

Well Trump threw politically correct in the trash and a lot of voters jumped in there with him. That wears on people when the 'wrong' of it fails to deliver most of the time. Tough love rarely works in politics. Rational thinking prevails in most endeavors. But it's certainly not a given - consider football's Hail Mary.

There's no point in excluding your opinion. To do that would defeat the whole point of grasping voter sentiment in the first place....LOL That's the whole point of this entire debate. You either eat the banana when its ripe or you watch it turn black right before your eyes.


LeafReport 73M

11/7/2019 3:38 am

Consensus, or commonality as you infer, is what every politician either seeks to advance, in support of their own position, or they seek it to limit the damage - when they find themselves coming up short. Whatever the result is everyone endures the persuasion phase until consensus actually emerges, or you get to the point of diminishing returns. Politicians themselves determine that by calculating when to get into the race and when to get out. The voters decide when to stop listening and that's the ultimate calculation.


LeafReport 73M

11/7/2019 4:07 am

Finally Medicare for All. As I've shared with you in the past I'm opposed to that because of its impact on employment in the health care industry. Cost control issues while always important cannot be the overriding concern. Employment must be. Transformation of government, of which health care is a part, is where Warren is right. A willingness to tackle that is critical to the country's future. Global economic realities, climate change, technology advances....all these will force transformation and the longer we wait the harder its going to be. Warren, above all others is better equipped to take on that fight and inspire a generation of innovative thinkers to make things happen. The rest of them, except for Mr. Yang, are just going to mud wrestle until their social security check arrives.


jiminycricket1 73M
13732 posts
11/7/2019 5:53 am

    Quoting LeafReport:
    Finally Medicare for All. As I've shared with you in the past I'm opposed to that because of its impact on employment in the health care industry. Cost control issues while always important cannot be the overriding concern. Employment must be. Transformation of government, of which health care is a part, is where Warren is right. A willingness to tackle that is critical to the country's future. Global economic realities, climate change, technology advances....all these will force transformation and the longer we wait the harder its going to be. Warren, above all others is better equipped to take on that fight and inspire a generation of innovative thinkers to make things happen. The rest of them, except for Mr. Yang, are just going to mud wrestle until their social security check arrives.
A couple of things...

As much as you oppose Trump....You ignore the Trump "effect"..Instead of a problem to solve.. you see it as an opportunity. What I see you doing is ignoring the CAUSE of the Trump"effect". Which will simply bring US back to square one, without a resolution.

There is only ONE healthcare issue... Healthcare for ALL.. that 's the winable issue.
"Medicare for All" is not a winable issue. Medicare for all is not the solution to Healthcare for all.. It's a possible solution. The more it becomes "the solution" The more ammunition you give your opponents to fight the only issue of healthcare for All.

I don't know how much news you watch, how informed you are, whether you listen to others..
But the writing on the wall..Just hasn't sunk in yet. Just like Trump supporters think he can win..when I think his Presidency is over, whether he keeps the title or not. Elizabeth Warren's campaign is DEAD
I know your fighting it....but what you think, or I think doesn't matter.

For example .. I think Mayor Pete should win.. I support Mayor Pete.. but what i think doesn't matter. I see the writing on the wall for him too,

It pisses me off that TODAY....Medicare for All or being GAY.. sinks a candidate. More so, for being gay.. because being gay, unlike medicare for All, is NOT an issue.

Amy Klobuchar has gone from 1% to 5%..... I see NOTHING that will stop that trend. Will it end up being enough? I don't know. But at this stage.. going up is better than going down. there is not going to be an epiphany. for Amy klobuchar to make leaps and bound..It will be slow and steady.
Mayor Peter will go up, but his being gay will create a plateau. Will it end up being enough to get him over the top.. I don't know.
They say the second choice of those who support Mayor Pete is divided between Biden and Warren. NOT the way it's going to play out..The second choice behind Mayor Peter will be Amy Klobuchar.. When she becomes a better possibility.

You doubted me.... months ago... I have already proved myself... how much evidence do YOU need.. to know I'm right?,, Of course 5% ain't much, but that hurdle for Amy Klobuchar to get into the December debates.. was my only real concern.. I said month ago she would be a main factor, if she could stick it out. I have always thought she had a better chance to get eliminated from the debates..Than to NOT win the nomination..
A year ago I said Beto.. but he became a caricature of a man.. And I gave up on him.. way before he gave up.. I have now replaced him with Mayor Pete
You don't get it.....When they talk about The leading candidate.. and the subset..Klobuchar is NOW always mentioned.. That wasn't happening before... When, enlighten conservative who wouldn't mind Trump being impeached or ousted talk.. they say Elizabeth Warren has the best chance of Losing to Trump.. Elizabeth Warren is Now the leader.. in both the Democrat primary and the Republican Primary...Isn't it strange that Trump never talks about her. Elvis is returning to the building and Pocahontas has left the reservation.


jiminycricket1 73M
13732 posts
11/7/2019 6:37 am

Biden's attack on Elizabeth yesterday.....

"If you don't agree with Elizabeth Warren, you must somehow be not a Democrat. You must somehow be corrupt. You must somehow not be as smart as she is," he told Joe Madison on SiriusXM's Urban View. "It's just something we don't do in our party. It's not who we are."

"She has things in her plan that are just not realistic, but if you question it, she says you don't understand or you're talking like a Republican," he continued. "It's just an elitist attitude that it's either my way or the highway."


Was it a political statement, a retaliation .. Yes it was.

But it tapped into a truth...That many who oppose Warren already think.
Warren can not defend herself from that kind of attack.. It a prelude to a national election.. In which a non-captive audience will see as the truth.

Warren can't handle that heat... she has no where to go with it.
Will it effect the democrat Primary.. Probable NOT.

It will hurt Biden , more than Warren.

But he didn't say it to convince people, he didn't say it To win the nomination, he didn't say it To hurt Elizabeth Warren..He said it, not to hurt front running competition..It's an irony.. because his saying it only helped his REAL Competition.. Mayor Pete and Amy Klobuchar.
He said it.. because he believe it to be true.. he said it....because people who think it , like Mayor Pete or Amy Klobuchar wouldn't say it.
And ironically, no political pundits dispute it. They just say it wasn't NICE.. but they don't say it wasn't the truth.

So what we take from it.. was not which democrat it helped.. It's which Democrat can not beat Trump.


LeafReport 73M

11/7/2019 6:37 am

    Quoting jiminycricket1:
    A couple of things...

    As much as you oppose Trump....You ignore the Trump "effect"..Instead of a problem to solve.. you see it as an opportunity. What I see you doing is ignoring the CAUSE of the Trump"effect". Which will simply bring US back to square one, without a resolution.

    There is only ONE healthcare issue... Healthcare for ALL.. that 's the winable issue.
    "Medicare for All" is not a winable issue. Medicare for all is not the solution to Healthcare for all.. It's a possible solution. The more it becomes "the solution" The more ammunition you give your opponents to fight the only issue of healthcare for All.

    I don't know how much news you watch, how informed you are, whether you listen to others..
    But the writing on the wall..Just hasn't sunk in yet. Just like Trump supporters think he can win..when I think his Presidency is over, whether he keeps the title or not. Elizabeth Warren's campaign is DEAD
    I know your fighting it....but what you think, or I think doesn't matter.

    For example .. I think Mayor Pete should win.. I support Mayor Pete.. but what i think doesn't matter. I see the writing on the wall for him too,

    It pisses me off that TODAY....Medicare for All or being GAY.. sinks a candidate. More so, for being gay.. because being gay, unlike medicare for All, is NOT an issue.

    Amy Klobuchar has gone from 1% to 5%..... I see NOTHING that will stop that trend. Will it end up being enough? I don't know. But at this stage.. going up is better than going down. there is not going to be an epiphany. for Amy klobuchar to make leaps and bound..It will be slow and steady.
    Mayor Peter will go up, but his being gay will create a plateau. Will it end up being enough to get him over the top.. I don't know.
    They say the second choice of those who support Mayor Pete is divided between Biden and Warren. NOT the way it's going to play out..The second choice behind Mayor Peter will be Amy Klobuchar.. When she becomes a better possibility.

    You doubted me.... months ago... I have already proved myself... how much evidence do YOU need.. to know I'm right?,, Of course 5% ain't much, but that hurdle for Amy Klobuchar to get into the December debates.. was my only real concern.. I said month ago she would be a main factor, if she could stick it out. I have always thought she had a better chance to get eliminated from the debates..Than to NOT win the nomination..
    A year ago I said Beto.. but he became a caricature of a man.. And I gave up on him.. way before he gave up.. I have now replaced him with Mayor Pete
    You don't get it.....When they talk about The leading candidate.. and the subset..Klobuchar is NOW always mentioned.. That wasn't happening before... When, enlighten conservative who wouldn't mind Trump being impeached or ousted talk.. they say Elizabeth Warren has the best chance of Losing to Trump.. Elizabeth Warren is Now the leader.. in both the Democrat primary and the Republican Primary...Isn't it strange that Trump never talks about her. Elvis is returning to the building and Pocahontas has left the reservation.
The Trump effect...wow what a great topic to tackle. I'll give you time...but why not open up a new blog on that topic so we can pull in other readers. There's a lot to say about that subject with many tentacles


LeafReport 73M

11/7/2019 6:48 am

Amy is eating crumbs from the others. As I've said several times already the campaign is frozen for impeachment. That effect is unknown in my mind and I dont think its knowable anyway. We have to wait for the hearings and that PLUS Tuesdays vote shapes the GOP message and rewrites campaign dynamics. It's nothing but wishful thinking or misguided panic until impeachment plays out in the Senate. You dont try to sail the Atlantic on a raft...at least I dont


LeafReport 73M

11/7/2019 6:59 am

We shall see if the Nov debates allow a Dec debate. You missed the mark on impeachment and I'm not buying. You also missed the mark on Warren. Amy is hanging around only because she's close to iowa from Minnesota. Even 5 percent at this stage isn't impressive in a caucus state.


jiminycricket1 73M
13732 posts
11/7/2019 7:05 am

If i was running this is what I would say to Elizabeth Warren.....You assume way too much...... The difference between our ideological position is almost non existence.. We agree on women's rights, guns control, healthcare for all, The abuses of Big Business and big money. And this countries absolute need to not go through another four years of this...
The fact is.... nothing else matters
As we discuss big idea and big plans it detract from the basic premise of what we agree on. the specifics of what we are going to do feed the beast of Trump supporters and dissuade those who would support us.
When what we we are going to do.. is healthcare for all, gun control, women's rights, a viable economy..and viable job creation, and protect the rights of workers, and defeat Trump. and most important end this corruption of this administration, tell the people they have a right to KNOW... that the truth can not be compromised.
How we do it.. doesn't matter... we just need to do it... do it ANYWAY, it can get done..and keep our eye on the ball.


LeafReport 73M

11/7/2019 9:14 am

    Quoting jiminycricket1:
    If i was running this is what I would say to Elizabeth Warren.....You assume way too much...... The difference between our ideological position is almost non existence.. We agree on women's rights, guns control, healthcare for all, The abuses of Big Business and big money. And this countries absolute need to not go through another four years of this...
    The fact is.... nothing else matters
    As we discuss big idea and big plans it detract from the basic premise of what we agree on. the specifics of what we are going to do feed the beast of Trump supporters and dissuade those who would support us.
    When what we we are going to do.. is healthcare for all, gun control, women's rights, a viable economy..and viable job creation, and protect the rights of workers, and defeat Trump. and most important end this corruption of this administration, tell the people they have a right to KNOW... that the truth can not be compromised.
    How we do it.. doesn't matter... we just need to do it... do it ANYWAY, it can get done..and keep our eye on the ball.
Well I see the urgency in removing Trump first and should that fail it is urgent to defeat him by election. This is where knowing the electorate is essential and demonstrating to the voters why it in their best interests


jiminycricket1 73M
13732 posts
11/7/2019 12:30 pm

    Quoting LeafReport:
    Well I see the urgency in removing Trump first and should that fail it is urgent to defeat him by election. This is where knowing the electorate is essential and demonstrating to the voters why it in their best interests
It's best to assume the impeachment serves a purpose that isn't going to remove him from office. It's unlikely , enough Republican Senators will vote for impeachment REGARDLESS of The EVIDENCE..
But that in itself is to Democrats advantage. to identify Trump sycophants and participants in denying the truth...
Every single Trump supporter will be looking for the backdoor in the future.. there will no backdoors for those Senators. The time for chaos , distraction, fake news, and alternate truths is OVER.. They are going to have to put it ALL on the line.


However it won't be over .. for in forty years... there will be skin heads,
and swastikas with a T, and brown shirts proudly wearing "Make America Great Again".. MAGA hats


LeafReport 73M

11/8/2019 2:02 am

    Quoting jiminycricket1:
    It's best to assume the impeachment serves a purpose that isn't going to remove him from office. It's unlikely , enough Republican Senators will vote for impeachment REGARDLESS of The EVIDENCE..
    But that in itself is to Democrats advantage. to identify Trump sycophants and participants in denying the truth...
    Every single Trump supporter will be looking for the backdoor in the future.. there will no backdoors for those Senators. The time for chaos , distraction, fake news, and alternate truths is OVER.. They are going to have to put it ALL on the line.

    However it won't be over .. for in forty years... there will be skin heads,
    and swastikas with a T, and brown shirts proudly wearing "Make America Great Again".. MAGA hats
Hi Cricket. Man I couldn't agree more with you here. A few days I ago I read an article that quoted every republican senator's view on impeachment. The cowardice here, and that is what it is at the core, was stunning, and so disappointing. I won't say it shocked me though. I truly don't like to hear that word, coward, let alone say it or imply it. But it sure feels more credible than competent, ignorant or even obedient. What the hell are those people thinking? Our problem here is enormous Cricket. I'm still annoyed that Pelosi didn't move on impeachment as she is doing now after the Mueller report was released. But I don't think anybody anticipated what Barr would do. I'm not dissatisfied with the process now and although hope is fading fast, I'm trying my best to see the republican waffling as only a last gasp of support before they cave completely once impeachment takes center stage in the senate. I wouldn't bet the farm on it though. I just see the process as important to reassert institutional governance as critical in the face of obvious fascist threat. They do have to put it all on the line. I confess to being worried and if and when I determine I have to shift my support to save the country I will. None of those senators intend to pay attention to a flood of phone calls or angry letters from constituents. That is alarming. I'm not sure how successful social media will be in building support for the nationwide protests that are being planned for the day before the House vote, but I'm hoping they will be historic. If that doesn't change minds I fear the only thing that might will be yet another Trump catastrophe even bigger than we've seen so far. We're walking on thin ice.


jiminycricket1 73M
13732 posts
11/8/2019 8:31 am

    Quoting LeafReport:
    Hi Cricket. Man I couldn't agree more with you here. A few days I ago I read an article that quoted every republican senator's view on impeachment. The cowardice here, and that is what it is at the core, was stunning, and so disappointing. I won't say it shocked me though. I truly don't like to hear that word, coward, let alone say it or imply it. But it sure feels more credible than competent, ignorant or even obedient. What the hell are those people thinking? Our problem here is enormous Cricket. I'm still annoyed that Pelosi didn't move on impeachment as she is doing now after the Mueller report was released. But I don't think anybody anticipated what Barr would do. I'm not dissatisfied with the process now and although hope is fading fast, I'm trying my best to see the republican waffling as only a last gasp of support before they cave completely once impeachment takes center stage in the senate. I wouldn't bet the farm on it though. I just see the process as important to reassert institutional governance as critical in the face of obvious fascist threat. They do have to put it all on the line. I confess to being worried and if and when I determine I have to shift my support to save the country I will. None of those senators intend to pay attention to a flood of phone calls or angry letters from constituents. That is alarming. I'm not sure how successful social media will be in building support for the nationwide protests that are being planned for the day before the House vote, but I'm hoping they will be historic. If that doesn't change minds I fear the only thing that might will be yet another Trump catastrophe even bigger than we've seen so far. We're walking on thin ice.
Pelosi did the right thing....The Mueller thing wasn't going to be a one time shot. where Trump would see the writing on wall and not do it again.
The Mueller investigation had over a year for Republican to set it up. Beginning with outrageous and ending up with something palatable for their supporter. Politically the timing was all wrong.
Although Mueller provided evidence of Russian interference, collusion, and obstruction...the sufficient substantiation wasn't there. A better one
was coming down the pike.. Impeachment at that time would have been a mistake.

Why Now? for a couple of reasons.

First it's recent... the ability o..Trump to spin it is less. It's has clear evidence from both sides of the aisle. Trump is still looking for ANYBODY who is testifying or involved that he can call a LIBERAL and be accurate.. There is NOT a one.. That's why the whistleblower is so important.. Trump want desperately to pin the Liberal label on someone. to make it a "witch hunt"and have ANY evidence to back it up.

The thing about foreign policy is that TRUMP can't do it alone.. It takes a network of people. Trump has far better control over what happen here than what's happening abroad.

Standing alone. this SHOULD BE sufficient.. What makes it.. undeniable.
Is the shadow policy of foreign policy.. that substantiates the shadow policy of Domestic policy.
The idea that Mueller investigation couldn't hold water...Is now coming in buckets. This investigation brings in with it, and negates every spin about the Mueller investigation.
Where as an unsuccessful impeachment of the president from the Mueller investigation, could have been used as evidence of a witch hunt of this investigation..
Finally the political nature of the timing.. What we have discovered about the the Public and the media.. is ability to be distracted and diverted to current stories that leave the past in the past. This impeachment coming so close to the election is going to hard to forget.. hard to distract, hard to divert, and hard accept the Lies.
The idea that this impeachment will help Trump to feed is base.. Is going to be overwhelmed with Lies.. Lies, this election will be impossibility for any Non-Trump supporter to forget..The lies that will free Trump from his responsibility, will become the issue. To those non supporters, where the truth once mattered, it won't anymore....Only the LIES will matter...It won't matter guilty or innocent.. the lies will take over.
There a big difference in Public perception of finding and knowing the truth...than fighting the LIES..
You and I may not be able to relate.. because we already fight them..the Lies. it drives Us nuts.. But other people are unsure or unaware.. of the truth.. Thus Lies don't carry the same impact as it does with it us. In this impeachment, no matter the acquittal or not... The Truth won't matter.. JUST THE LIES.. the affront to American people.
The irony is that impeaching could actually save the Republican party, Not destroy it...The Lies will destroy them.. irregardless of the truth.. there will be No dupes, no complicity.. just participants in the LIE....this may not change the Presidency.. but it's down ballot effect will be tremendous.


jiminycricket1 73M
13732 posts
11/8/2019 8:46 am

yesterday, someone non-commital.. Thought that Trump could win...

This was my response....yeah , your right... but not without the manipulation, criminal or legal, of the electoral college. to focus on certain States, manipulate certain groups, not to get their vote but to win the electoral votes of that STATE, by ANY means possible.

I'll make you a guarantee.. it's not that Trump will lose... It's that Hillary beat Trump in the popular vote by 3 million.. I guarantee you Trump will lose the popular vote this time by a far greater margin.


LeafReport 73M

11/8/2019 3:54 pm

    Quoting jiminycricket1:
    Pelosi did the right thing....The Mueller thing wasn't going to be a one time shot. where Trump would see the writing on wall and not do it again.
    The Mueller investigation had over a year for Republican to set it up. Beginning with outrageous and ending up with something palatable for their supporter. Politically the timing was all wrong.
    Although Mueller provided evidence of Russian interference, collusion, and obstruction...the sufficient substantiation wasn't there. A better one
    was coming down the pike.. Impeachment at that time would have been a mistake.

    Why Now? for a couple of reasons.

    First it's recent... the ability o..Trump to spin it is less. It's has clear evidence from both sides of the aisle. Trump is still looking for ANYBODY who is testifying or involved that he can call a LIBERAL and be accurate.. There is NOT a one.. That's why the whistleblower is so important.. Trump want desperately to pin the Liberal label on someone. to make it a "witch hunt"and have ANY evidence to back it up.

    The thing about foreign policy is that TRUMP can't do it alone.. It takes a network of people. Trump has far better control over what happen here than what's happening abroad.

    Standing alone. this SHOULD BE sufficient.. What makes it.. undeniable.
    Is the shadow policy of foreign policy.. that substantiates the shadow policy of Domestic policy.
    The idea that Mueller investigation couldn't hold water...Is now coming in buckets. This investigation brings in with it, and negates every spin about the Mueller investigation.
    Where as an unsuccessful impeachment of the president from the Mueller investigation, could have been used as evidence of a witch hunt of this investigation..
    Finally the political nature of the timing.. What we have discovered about the the Public and the media.. is ability to be distracted and diverted to current stories that leave the past in the past. This impeachment coming so close to the election is going to hard to forget.. hard to distract, hard to divert, and hard accept the Lies.
    The idea that this impeachment will help Trump to feed is base.. Is going to be overwhelmed with Lies.. Lies, this election will be impossibility for any Non-Trump supporter to forget..The lies that will free Trump from his responsibility, will become the issue. To those non supporters, where the truth once mattered, it won't anymore....Only the LIES will matter...It won't matter guilty or innocent.. the lies will take over.
    There a big difference in Public perception of finding and knowing the truth...than fighting the LIES..
    You and I may not be able to relate.. because we already fight them..the Lies. it drives Us nuts.. But other people are unsure or unaware.. of the truth.. Thus Lies don't carry the same impact as it does with it us. In this impeachment, no matter the acquittal or not... The Truth won't matter.. JUST THE LIES.. the affront to American people.
    The irony is that impeaching could actually save the Republican party, Not destroy it...The Lies will destroy them.. irregardless of the truth.. there will be No dupes, no complicity.. just participants in the LIE....this may not change the Presidency.. but it's down ballot effect will be tremendous.
Super interesting read...will comment later. Makes a ton of sense to me. The Mueller report, which I read all of it, was way more than I needed. It really was way more than the rest of the nation needed to, which is so frustrating.


LeafReport 73M

11/10/2019 2:38 am

    Quoting LeafReport:
    Super interesting read...will comment later. Makes a ton of sense to me. The Mueller report, which I read all of it, was way more than I needed. It really was way more than the rest of the nation needed to, which is so frustrating.
I don't know where to start here. I'll give you credit - what you've said just speaks for itself. All of that is just plain ole truth Cricket.


jiminycricket1 73M
13732 posts
11/10/2019 9:12 am

The idea of eliminating the electoral college.. may be proper.. BUT NOT AT THIS TIME.

Eliminating the electoral college.. ASSURES A TRUMP DEFEAT..

You don't want to win that way..

No excuses, no reasons... It's necessary to win despite the electoral college and it bias.. that's called overcoming and not a guarantee. WE NEED to overcome the electoral college.. Agree to the electoral college..Just makes it fair according to THOSE RULES. Don't do what Republican do.. to try and assure a victory.. All these ideas of gerrymandering, and voter restrictions don't need to be corrected, or said to be false.... They first need to be overcome. that's the proof of what it is, and why in America you can't do that. the Republicans have gone too far.. but show them in America...You can NEVER go far enough.