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bondjam33 70M
844 posts
6/11/2020 2:27 am
Is the problem a few bad cops?


Much has been made about the 'few bad apples' argument on both sides of the debate but the problem would appear to be much more to do with the functionality of law enforcement in the USA.
There exists nationally a plethora of under trained police forces which are regarded by a large section of society as being unfit for purpose. The mentality that buying in ever more costly military hardware will somehow 'fix' things only exacerbates this divide.
When the rhetoric coming from the top is 'dominate', 'confrontation', 'shoot' if they do not 'obey' then the whole tenor of policing is no longer to 'serve and protect' but policing OF the people rather than BY the people. Police and citizens (why do US Police refer to them as civilians so often?) should never be them and us; police are members of the same communities which they are supposed to serve; THEY ARE US.

I specifically highlighted under trained because I believe that it is the root of the problem.

If we compare training -
Japanese police train for 4 years to become police officers then have to undergo a compulsory 2 years of specialist training on the job.

UK Police have to have a degree and train for 2 years afterwards, take a degree over three years whilst training to be a policeman or do a three year 'degree apprenticeship.' All Scandinavian police forces have a similar training set up.

German police train for a minimum of 2 years at the academy; French police for one year at the academy then at least one year on the job training which can be extended for three monthly periods if they are not deemed well enough qualified.

Despite this all of these forces have ongoing monitoring of racial bias and take remedial action when it is detected, in the case of the London Met quite drastic action with reform from top to bottom. They are all police forces subject to national standards even though organised on a regional basis which may also have a lot to do with it.

According to the US Bureau of Justice Statistics, police training in the many and various US police academies can range from four weeks to 6 months. However, this range excludes any field training that the recruit may need to take.

In the light of these facts it would appear to be a good idea to look into:-
1. Developing a national standard for police training. Training in deescalation techniques takes much more time than training in riot techniques or the use of force.
2. Reducing spending on hardware and using the savings to improve the education and training offered. The (other) armed forces have national training requirements.
3. Developing a national register of LEOs so that an officer sacked for misconduct in one force cannot move to a separate jurisdiction and join another force. Once again the armed forces have centralised records of every member's service record.

bondjam33 70M
840 posts
6/11/2020 2:28 am

Please discuss sensibly and politely.

Insults will be called out for the distraction which they assuredly are.


LeafReport 73M

6/11/2020 3:02 am

No it is not a few bad cops. It's widespread in America and its been that way for quite some time. Policing has been virtually militarized, foolishly, in many places around the country. America doesn't need, or want police in schools. We read stories of police abuse in newspapers in hundreds of cities and towns all across America. I'm not saying every cop is crooked, but more often than not they are arrogant, cities have recruit problems so we don't always get the best of citizens. They are far too quick to judge and racism runs deep in various parts of the country. It is indeed an out of control problem and major reforms are way past due. Automation does more to control traffic than the police ever do. It is a tough job, but they are failing in profound ways and far too many abuses and even deaths have occurred. You can talk to just about everyone and people will be able to tell a story, whether innocent or not, of the police falling woefully short of appropriate, and necessary treatment. Polls show that a whopping 84% of the country believe the protests are justified. You do NOT get numbers like that if its isn't a big problem here. They have been a spectacular failure.


bondjam33 replies on 6/11/2020 8:09 am:
I understand your anger Leaf , and I will not contest the strength of feeling you display.
You make valuable points about police in schools and the way in which widely reported elements of boorish, overly aggressive behaviour are souring the national outlook on the whole area of law enforcement.
Having conceded all of this the main thrust of my blog was to illustrate a possible way forward and, by dint of example, try to start a dialogue which could provide possible signposts to progress in this area.

hermitinthecity 70M
1696 posts
6/11/2020 4:12 am

If the problem is financial as in it's expensive to train for several years then this is the fruit of it. It also may be that to train for that many years on a limited income is not appealing to the recruits.

Having uneducated people on law on the streets trying to enforce the law will bring problems.

As for police and "civilians" rather than citizens brings about something more stronger than just a class distinction. If you go down the conspiracy road then there could be a sinister agenda behind the lingo. In times of trouble the police and military get together like in Cyclone Katrina; if I recall correctly they illegally took guns off law abiding people during the aftermath. It's interesting what you've mentioned here.

Judgment Day will be interesting - and all paths lead there.


bondjam33 replies on 6/11/2020 8:02 am:
I could not agree more with your first two points hermit and I can see that you appreciate the nuances of calling citizens civilians but I think we derive different conclusions from this use of civilians.
Which is most relevant is a moot point and not the subject of this blog.

looklook 84M
3925 posts
6/11/2020 6:27 am

The problem is not a few bad cops!
Perhaps they lack vision to uphold the code of honor and ensure enforcement of law in a very professional, courteous and equitable manner!


bondjam33 replies on 6/11/2020 7:59 am:
I agree with your sentiments look, and would hold them myself in a Rabelaisian 'best of all possible worlds' but I think there is a desperate need for rigorous and effective training in the areas of respect for the public on which you have commented and in many other areas.

uncleremus 73M

6/11/2020 12:10 pm

    Quoting bondjam33:
    Please discuss sensibly and politely.

    Insults will be called out for the distraction which they assuredly are.
BOND, I AM IN AWE. YOU ARE THE ONLY PERSON I HAVE E VER ENCOUNTERED THAT IS AN AUTHORITY IN EVERY SUBJECT AND MATTER.

I TRULY HOPE I CAN REACH THE PINNACLE YOU RESIDE ON.

OOPS WAIT. I AM SORRY.I FORGET. NO ONE CANT REACH THAT LOFTY PERCH .

WELL I CAN DREAM


bondjam33 70M
840 posts
6/11/2020 12:20 pm

    Quoting uncleremus:
    BOND, I AM IN AWE. YOU ARE THE ONLY PERSON I HAVE E VER ENCOUNTERED THAT IS AN AUTHORITY IN EVERY SUBJECT AND MATTER.

    I TRULY HOPE I CAN REACH THE PINNACLE YOU RESIDE ON.

    OOPS WAIT. I AM SORRY.I FORGET. NO ONE CANT REACH THAT LOFTY PERCH .

    WELL I CAN DREAM
It would appear, from your own admission, that your skills and interests are severely limited.

Please do not judge everyone by your own despicably low standard.

I did warn you that (sarcastic) insults which do not address the subject of the blog will be called out-- I am calling this one out.


uncleremus 73M

6/11/2020 6:12 pm

    Quoting bondjam33:
    It would appear, from your own admission, that your skills and interests are severely limited.

    Please do not judge everyone by your own despicably low standard.

    I did warn you that (sarcastic) insults which do not address the subject of the blog will be called out-- I am calling this one out.
well i see u deleted my comments

WIMP


bondjam33 replies on 6/12/2020 12:24 am:
You were warned that NOT discussing the blog subject and issuing gratuitous insults would not be allowed. I called out your first insult but you did not learn and so I deleted your second and third.

I DO NOT ALLOW irrelevant self serving and insulting behaviour - get that through your thick skull or I might even ban you -- you know like you banned me from even reading your blogs when you could not think up answers to the points I made.

Debate what is up for debate without making irrelevant insults and your points will be answered -- look at everyone else's constructive (even if critical) comments and you might learn how to do it.