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6/5/2018 4:44 am |
What I'm wondering is who exactly is paying what must be the astronomical legal fees and disbursements in this case all the way to the Supreme Court??? Whoever is paying for this must really have a lot of money and be against gay people. Wedding gown stores, tuxedo fitters, wedding invitation stores, churches and reception halls, limousine services....all having to do with a wedding or a wedding reception just as much as the wedding cake does. Do all these businesses also have a right now to refuse to serve gay people preparing for their wedding??
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The First Amendment means that the Government cannot dictate who churches allow or disallow in their churches. Some churches don't welcome gays or others do. I would not be inclined to participate in a church that ostracizes a gay person. It would be contrary to my values. Abracadabra 
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We need to understand a few things about this.... the rights of the business owner and the rights of the patrons. The business owner has a right to refuse services, but not arbitrarily and without forewarning.. Patrons have a right.. to know what they are walking into when they open the door. The business owner..CAN"T have it both ways... Refusing service on religious grounds... makes the cake shop a religious cake shop. It needs to be clearly defined as to who their clientele is.. Patrons have a RIGHT TO KNOW...If the Cake Shop is really OPEN to the public or not. If the the cake shop, misleads by saying it's open to the PUBLIC. When a gay person.. travels to, and makes plans that depend on that "Public" Service and then is denied. That patron has a legal course of action, for any damages. The same would go for any "false advertising". Before the seventies.... there were signs in restaurants and shops.. "We have the Right to refuse service to anybody.. "WHITES ONLY" Do think that was racist.. well... from the individual, at the time, it was. but not from the business.. it was "good" business......Do you think the signs were removed because of Human right.....Wrong again... the sign were removed because having the sign wasn't "good" business... People and businesses don't operate the same. People operate in different ways, but businesses depends on how All people operate. People who operate a business always have a conflict..Personal and business.... "Religious freedom" in this case.... is just an excuse.. to try and resolve that conflict and have it both ways.
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The proper religious belief thing, for the cake shop to do, is to Post a sign, saying..... . "Our religious beliefs, means we have the right to refuse service to GAY people, or to anyone else who does not abide by the owner's religious beliefs." I'm sure his congregation would continue to buy a cake from him.. but no one else will. Business thrive on the products and service they sell... agreement has very little impact... But conversely.. disagreements sinks business.. From a personal standpoint agreements matter and disagreements do not.... From a business standpoint agreements don't matter... but disagreements DO! Businesses tell employees... the customer is always right.. what do you think that means? Do you think that means the customer is always right.. that right or wrong matters Hell NO.. It means, avoid getting into a disagreement with a customer, at all costs.. Having a disagreement is "bad business".
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Maisie continues to try to have it both ways too. Democracy is based on majority rule.....but OUR Democracy is not that simple....Because no matter how hard maisie tries... the majority cannot be defined, by either her fake majority or even by an actual majority. the idea that the majority can flip flop, like a fish out of water.. is just foreign to maisie.. Maisie doesn't flip flop..so how can the majority flip flop..and maisie believes herself to always be in the majority.. The true results.. is that the majority always flip flops to the negativity of the previous majority's rule... we simply move from one autocrat to a different autocrat. From maisies standpoint... A rightful ruler to an unrightful ruler. Most of US have a respect for the minority... because we've been there... We understand and respect the plight of the minority.. that is not to deny the rights of the majority, but to understand we are ever changing..and whether you are on top as the majority or on bottom as the minority... It doesn't matter....because your position is always changing.. The ever changing majority must ALWAYS protect the minority... or they'll soon find themselves unprotected..
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6/5/2018 7:01 pm |
A Christian who understands scripture has no conflict with gay marriage. The Supreme Court decision was a victory for bigots pretending to be Christian. Not a good day for the USA and the flag.
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Is the Supreme Court's judgment a half-backed solution as claimed by one of the British Media? This particular media believes the judgment as an artful act of dodging over gay wedding cakes! "There is still no clear guidance on where gay rights end and religious freedom begins." I am really confused!
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A Christian who understands scripture has no conflict with gay marriage. The Supreme Court decision was a victory for bigots pretending to be Christian. Not a good day for the USA and the flag.
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6/5/2018 10:51 pm |
Could you explain why a Christian who understands scripture has no conflict with gay marriage - thanks I don't see a Religious conflict except the conflict invented by the baker.
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Maisie i wish you could understand what I'm talking about.. It's my fear and it should be your fear too.. You threw a tea party... maisie.. that from it's moral position. like the original tea party.... of taxation without representation. they decried the disenfranchised taxpayer.. then sent out invitations. to other disenfranchised folks.... they formed a coalition to fight all the EVILS of government... It brought in...all the people who had reasons to hate our government and hate those they saw running it....It brought it conspiracy theorists, Deep Staters, racists, fascists, elitist, pseudo moralists. marginalized white uneducated men. It brought in religion and religious women who deemed themselves to be subjugated by the government. IT brought a ground swell for change, but it also brought in a fatal flaw... Donald Trump.. You had to see how you worked it , maisie.. and the current end result of an Autocratic State, unwaving, and void of democratic principles. Here's the rub maisie...... you opened the door... of the backlash...to socialist, progressives, wealth distributors., and financial insolvency...You showed them the way..... to a different kind of autocratic State, unwavering, and void of Democratic principle... Now you have made it so..The fear you tried to instill.. Can NOW become a REAL fear. The majority you believe you had, but NEVER really had.... will be gone .. and in becoming the minority, it will be left unprotected.. Your boat will have been sunk to the bottom of the ocean, and you're going to pay hell trying to raise it back again.. maisie ...you don't believe me... well the proof.. Moderate Democrats are getting their butts kick...Just like the moderate Republicans got their butts kicked. Be careful with what you wished for ...maisie... by the time they get through with this .. Pelosi and Schummer... may be Republicans.
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It's obvious to me what happened,, HOW the far right.. made the moderate right Liberal... and the moderate Liberal the far left. Well it's going in reverse.....the Moderate right will become the far right, the Moderate left.. will become the right.... Donald Trump has made it so...... the reaction to Donald Trump has made it so... Donald trump WAS able to get away with a negative untrue prelude... That tried to become the whole story.. and to an extent it worked...Making moderate Democrats the far left....But Truth wins out and the Lie eventually loses.. And when that story ends.. people will NEVER want to re-read it. but people are fickled.. with the the WHAT of it, and not the how of it.... You sell them a "bad' product and they will NEVER buy that product again.. Liberals can do the same thing in reverse..... sell them, in the same way, but sell them a different product.....How that turns out...well..It won't matter, because no matter what... People won't return to the "bad' product they had already bought into....... Liberals will make sure of that...and the liberals negative untrue prelude.. will NEVER seem to be, in the same degree of a LIE.... Trump told.. Trump has destroyed the Republican party.....because the Truth is... Trump will be known as the WORST President this countries ever had... Not for the What , but the HOW.... The rub is..... people don't see the how .. they only see the what, and they certainly confuse the two.. But history won't, it only sees the HOW......that's all History ever looks at... But don't feel too bad....History will eventually catch up.. to the HOW the left does it too. So NOW..... it's the Left that has to be careful what they wish for.
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Christians know that the New Testament is about love, compassion, treating others as you want to be treated. Jesus Christ clearly calls for separation of Church and State ... "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.” I don't see a Religious conflict except the conflict invented by the baker.
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The Christian God, in all hi glory and unlimited wisdom, chose to communicate in the most vague, ambiguous ways possible......hence the thousands of denominations, the millions of interpretations, the completely useless and dysfunctional "Theology".......people studying other people's interpretations.....let alone the centuries of Human suffering caused by witch trials and deaths. uprisings and wars, the Church forcing belief on pain of death, bloody uprisings, divided countries, abused children........on and on, just because the all-powerful creator of the Universe has chosen to not communicate clearly.
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It is nothing to do with Religion. It is about Freedom. No one should be told they have to do something they do not wish to do be it bake a cake, buy a magazine, speak their mind, eat their vegetables first, be forced to eat broccoli even in they are the president, be a member of a Trade Union or anything else or not, and so on. That homosexual pair could just have gone to another cake shop. Why didn't they? So, they are free to be homosexuals according to their preference, but the cake maker is not free to make a cake according to his belief. Hypocricy of the first order. We demand of everyone that we can exercise our Rights, but you cannot even express yours.
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It is nothing to do with Religion. It is about Freedom. No one should be told they have to do something they do not wish to do be it bake a cake, buy a magazine, speak their mind, eat their vegetables first, be forced to eat broccoli even in they are the president, be a member of a Trade Union or anything else or not, and so on. That homosexual pair could just have gone to another cake shop. Why didn't they? So, they are free to be homosexuals according to their preference, but the cake maker is not free to make a cake according to his belief. Hypocricy of the first order. We demand of everyone that we can exercise our Rights, but you cannot even express yours. post 211360
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