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Skariff2 66M
4272 posts
5/31/2019 6:34 pm
I'm trying to understand, but it's getting tougher


"Accordingly, while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him." Mueller Report, Volume 2, page 2. Furthermore, in Mr. Mueller's minute press conference statement he stated if the President did not commit any crimes he would have stated such in the report. He didn't.

What I fail to understand is how anyone could interpret those statements as being complete and full exoneration of the President. Yet, there are those who do make that assumption. We're not talking about some nebulous words which are subject to interpretation, we're talking about flat out statements that our President is a criminal. Yet we hear continuously about an innocent President who has been victimized by a partisan attorney (a registered Republican) strictly for political reasons. However, the 30% heard President Trump say it so it must be true.

At some point the United States of America will become more important to the 30% than an ignorant wanna be struggling to remain in the White House. And the 30% continue to wonder why the 70% believe they are controlled by ignorance.

Prejudice cannot be conquered with logic, logic didn't instill it and logic cannot eradicate it.


Skariff2 66M
2901 posts
5/31/2019 6:35 pm

...

Prejudice cannot be conquered with logic, logic didn't instill it and logic cannot eradicate it.


Skariff2 66M
2901 posts
5/31/2019 7:55 pm

    Quoting bigblock46:
    That’s not how it works in America. Investigators are supposed to look for evidence that a crime was committed, and, if they don’t find enough to contend that a crime was a committed, they are supposed to say “We didn’t find enough to contend that a crime was committed.” They are not supposed to look for evidence that a crime was not committed and then say, “We couldn’t find evidence of innocence."

    Let’s start with the Mueller team’s unique take on the nature of a prosecutor’s job. The standard American view of justice, affirmed and enforced by the U.S. Constitution, is that all are presumed innocent absent conviction by a jury of a specific charge of criminal wrongdoing. That is, the natural legal state of an individual in this country is innocence. It is not a state or a nature bestowed by cops or attorneys. Innocence is not granted by unelected bureaucrats or federal prosecutors.

    “Every defendant is presumed innocent unless and until proven guilty.”
You'd do well to spend some time and read the report. Mueller determined there was foreign interference in the 2016 election, which would constitute a crime. Mueller also stated if the President was free from criminal activity he would have stated it in the report. He didn't. Mueller also said in the report he could not exonerate the President, but could not impeach him. In other words, the President is a criminal. Mueller did his job and did it well, you simply are unwilling to accept the fact you have been supporting a criminal since his election.

Furthermore, I don't think you know the workings of the American System of Justice as you believe you do. In many areas the local bar association will assist you in understanding it.

Finally, if you read the duties with which the special prosecutor was charged it may help you get closer to understanding your response to my blog is erroneous.

Prejudice cannot be conquered with logic, logic didn't instill it and logic cannot eradicate it.


sparkleflit 72F
5061 posts
5/31/2019 8:52 pm


It's mind-boggling to the rest of the world to watch this go down.....to watch the 30%ers keep repeating that Trump has been exonerated by the Mueller Report........It's like watching a movie all the way through and realize that there's a group of people who are in a theatre where the movie just keeps repeating the middle section and never reaches the conclusion.........they aren't forced to remain in the faulty theater, they choose to stay and stay because gollnabbit, they paid admission and they're not quitters..


bijou649 70F
700 posts
6/1/2019 1:41 am

Trump and his Cabinet, the Repub politicians, Faux News, the Attorney General, the Trump family, their lawyers, etc etc......they lie and enable Trump on a daily basis. They must all get together to dream up how to put their own weird spin on everything that happens. How is this not an Oligarchy?


Skariff2 66M
2901 posts
6/1/2019 3:56 am

    Quoting bigblock46:
    You would do well to go back to law school. Its NOT the prosecutors position to IMPEACH the President, Their legal obligation is not to exonerate someone or prove an individual’s innocence. Nor is any accused person required to prove his or her own innocence. What Mueller did. He improvised a new standard that applies only to Trump --presumption of guilt. Under this novel “guilty until proven innocent” paradigm, it is up to the president to prove the allegations are false. He refused to make a decision to charge the president in a court of law but was more than willing to indict him in the court of public opinion.

    His report was a non-indictment indictment. It was calumny masquerading as a report.

    The Constitution gives the House of Representatives the sole power to impeach an official.
Simply read the first paragraph of volume 1 of the report. You're confusing routine criminal investigations with special prosecutor duties specifically set forth. Your confusion is not accidental, it's part of the 30% policy to defend the President no matter the facts of the issue. In doing so, of course, you are as guilty as he is.

Prejudice cannot be conquered with logic, logic didn't instill it and logic cannot eradicate it.


earthytaurus3 79F
40247 posts
6/1/2019 3:58 am

BIGBLOCK … that's the way the it used to work with the U.S. Constitution as well ...'til Trump and his minions got a hold of it.


Skariff2 66M
2901 posts
6/1/2019 6:37 am

    Quoting bigblock46:
    However, ultimately "the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities".

    You seem to think Americans are too uneducated And stupid to come to their own conclusions about the Mueller report. Then apparently Alan Dershowitz, Joseph diGenova, Mark Levin and Victoria Toensing fall into that classification.

    Mueller, stated in his "press conference" that as part of the Justice Department, his office was “bound by” the OLC’s opinion. That’s a fantasy Mueller just tried to sell on national TV. Here’s the reality.

    If President Trump actually committed a crime, there is nothing in the OLC’s opinion that would have prevented the special counsel or the attorney general from saying so. Most crucially, Mueller’s own report admitted that the Special Counsel’s Office “did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.”

    Attorney General Barr and Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein had the courage and integrity to do what Mueller would not. Reviewing the same underlying material that Mueller developed, and in consultation with other senior Justice Department attorneys, Barr and Rosenstein jointly concluded that the evidence was “not sufficient” to constitute obstruction of justice by President Trump. Period.

    The motive is obvious. Mueller, having failed for two years to find Trump-Russia “collusion,” is trying to reframe the Russiagate narrative in an effort to put some wind back in the sails of the impeachment effort.
You're now officially classified as hopeless. Please cease posting on my blogs.

Prejudice cannot be conquered with logic, logic didn't instill it and logic cannot eradicate it.


butterfly21 70F
135 posts
6/1/2019 8:23 am

The special counsels job was to investigate, He did it, not his job to impeach, nor his job to prosecute the President. A sitting President can not be charged with a crime nor held accountable by a special prosecutor. How can the department of Justice charge and investigate their boss? That is one reason it is Congresses JOB and not the Special Prosecutors or the Department of Justices job to prosecute the President. The President is held accountable by Congress!

If the President is re-elected the statue of limitations on his crime will have ran out, and he will not be held accountable..


Skariff2 66M
2901 posts
6/1/2019 8:24 am

    Quoting bigblock46:
    What's the problem Can't you handle the truth.
The fact you actually believe what you're saying is the truth tells me you haven't a clue about reality, instead you live in a fantasy world dictated by a narcissistic ignoramus concerned solely with his own welfare. What Mueller said in his report is abundantly clear and then explained even more clearly in his public announcement. There are numerous video tape comparisons demonstrating unquestionably that AG Barr was appointed to save the President and has been doing a stellar job.

So, I release you from the onerous task of perpetrating the lies of this administration, at least on my blogs.

Prejudice cannot be conquered with logic, logic didn't instill it and logic cannot eradicate it.


CarolinaPanthera 58F
3235 posts
6/1/2019 12:49 pm

Let's not forget that BB, DID NOT vote for Trump. (His words, not mine.) Yet he is one of Trump's fiercest defenders, fighting tooth, and nail to the death. There was something about Trump that caused him to cast his vote elsewhere, if he even voted. The rest of us who did the same, and DID NOT vote for Trump are to be damned to hell for our opinions, and reasons why we didn't vote for him. Sadly BB has lost his way, and is so deep in his hatred for Democrats...specifically SFF Democrats, that he's blind to the truth. As long as he thinks he's getting under our skin, he's going to do whatever it takes to get that instant gratification. He's addicted.


dusty117 69M
1015 posts
6/1/2019 1:51 pm

Skariff, once I accepted the basic premise it all became easier to understand.

Racism and bigotry override everything. White Republican Media has finally wormed it's way into a presidency. Trump's goal to rip off the US Treasury needed way more than the 'super wealthy' vote so he reached out to racists, bigots and uneducated. The premise … white trash is alive and well in the USA.

In this particular case I'm pretty sure that much of the 30% are capable of understanding that the rules are different for a sitting president and that of a common criminal. They might not be getting the NEWS .. LOL

Keep on rocken in the free world!


LeafReport 68M
2216 posts
6/1/2019 4:20 pm

    Quoting bigblock46:
    What's the problem Can't you handle the truth.
By the way...the Navy acknowledged the correspondence asking they hide the McCain during Trump's visit to Japan. Is there anything you don't lie about? What a disgrace.


CarolinaPanthera 58F
3235 posts
6/1/2019 5:02 pm

    Quoting bigblock46:
    You would hock your dentures to find out who I voted for.
Don't flatter yourself sweetheart. I don't give two shits who you voted for. The richest part is the fact that you admitted you didn't vote for Trump. Which in turn makes you look like the pathetic loser you are when you "hock your dentures" defending him.


bigblock46 73M
9546 posts
6/1/2019 6:14 pm

    Quoting LeafReport:
    By the way...the Navy acknowledged the correspondence asking they hide the McCain during Trump's visit to Japan. Is there anything you don't lie about? What a disgrace.
This according to an email reviewed by The Wall Street Journal. However the email evidence was later posted by CNBC and it does not say the order came from the White House.


hobsonschoice 70F
3233 posts
6/1/2019 8:25 pm

    Quoting bigblock46:
    However, ultimately "the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities".

    You seem to think Americans are too uneducated And stupid to come to their own conclusions about the Mueller report. Then apparently Alan Dershowitz, Joseph diGenova, Mark Levin and Victoria Toensing fall into that classification.

    Mueller, stated in his "press conference" that as part of the Justice Department, his office was “bound by” the OLC’s opinion. That’s a fantasy Mueller just tried to sell on national TV. Here’s the reality.

    If President Trump actually committed a crime, there is nothing in the OLC’s opinion that would have prevented the special counsel or the attorney general from saying so. Most crucially, Mueller’s own report admitted that the Special Counsel’s Office “did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.”

    Attorney General Barr and Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein had the courage and integrity to do what Mueller would not. Reviewing the same underlying material that Mueller developed, and in consultation with other senior Justice Department attorneys, Barr and Rosenstein jointly concluded that the evidence was “not sufficient” to constitute obstruction of justice by President Trump. Period.

    The motive is obvious. Mueller, having failed for two years to find Trump-Russia “collusion,” is trying to reframe the Russiagate narrative in an effort to put some wind back in the sails of the impeachment effort.
More than 450 former federal prosecutors signed onto a letter Monday claiming that if Donald Trump was not a sitting president, he would have been found guilty of obstruction of justice from evidence laid out in special counsel Robert Mueller's Russia probe.
"Each of us believes that the conduct of President Trump described in Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s report would, in the case of any other person not covered by the Office of Legal Counsel policy against indicting a sitting President, result in multiple felony charges for obstruction of justice," according to the letter.
Attorney General William Barr did not push for obstruction charges against Trump after Mueller submitted his report on the investigation into Russia's interference in the 2016 presidential election, where he also laid out evidence of obstruction by the president.
Barr has stood by his characterization and decision not to pursue obstruction charges during a hearing of the Senate Judiciary Committee last week.

House Democrats have also called on Barr to testify before the House Judiciary Committee, in addition to providing Congress with an unredacted version of Mueller's 448-page report. However, Barr has not testified nor submitted the unredacted report, prompting the House committee to begin contempt proceedings against the attorney general as early as Wednesday for his failure to provide the unredacted report.
In the letter, the former federal prosecutors said that the Mueller report "describes multiple efforts by the president to curtail the scope of the Special Counsel’s investigation," and pointed to when Trump pressured then-Attorney General Jeff Sessions to reverse his decision to recuse himself from overseeing Mueller's investigation. The letter also pointed out that the president directed his then-chief of staff Reince Priebus to fire Sessions, which Priebus refused.
"In our system, every accused person is presumed innocent and it is always the government’s burden to prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt," the former prosecutors wrote. "But, to look at these facts and say that a prosecutor could not probably sustain a conviction for obstruction of justice — the standard set out in Principles of Federal Prosecution — runs counter to logic and our experience."

Several prominent attorneys signed onto the letter, including Elkan Abramowitz, who is representing American Media Inc. CEO David Pecker. Pecker has in the past supported Trump and AMI has been implicated in a scheme to buy controversial stories involving Trump with the intent of making sure they were not published.

In addition, former Massachusetts Gov. Bill Weld, who announced he running for president as a Republican in a primary challenge to Trump, also signed onto the letter. Weld was formerly the assistant attorney general for the Criminal Division at the Justice Department.
"We believe strongly that, but for the OLC (Office of Legal Counsel) memo, the overwhelming weight of professional judgment would come down in favor of prosecution for the conduct outlined in the Mueller Report," the letter concludes.


USA today


sparkleflit 72F
5061 posts
6/2/2019 3:41 pm

Until US politicians, on both sides of the aisle wean themselves off corporate money, very little will change. Trump is a corporate puppet and so are GOP leadership. The tax bill and deregulation are nothing but gifts to their corporate masters.......


earthytaurus3 79F
40247 posts
6/2/2019 8:48 pm

    Quoting sparkleflit:
    Until US politicians, on both sides of the aisle wean themselves off corporate money, very little will change. Trump is a corporate puppet and so are GOP leadership. The tax bill and deregulation are nothing but gifts to their corporate masters.......
That's exactly why the hog's share of those seated in the senate are multi-millionaires, some billionaires, even. They suck from the public trough and have done exactly that for too many YEARS! It's time to turn that around. 2020 could make a world of a difference.