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Maisie2013 66F
29682 posts
7/17/2017 8:37 am
TO LEAD , YOU MUST FOLLOW ???


Any one ever hear this one from your mother ? " If all your friends jumped off a cliff, would you go, too ? " Then you got a lecture on doing what is right, not being one of the crowd, and leading by example.
I guess the lame stream media and some in Congress were the ones who went ahead and jumped off the metaphorical cliff.
When Trump pulled the US out of the Paris Accords, what was the headline? All various forms of the same theme- the US has given up its position of leadership in the world.
ABC News contemplated "A World Without U.S. Leadership." CNN reported that Trump exchanged "an aggressive, traditional American leadership role for isolation in a club of one." The liberal activist Neera Tanden tweeted, "Can we just admit that the era of American global leadership is over under Trump?"

"We take note of the decision of the United States of American to withdraw from the Paris Agreement," the G-20 leaders' final declaration said. Then: "The leaders of the other G-20 members state that the Paris Agreement is irreversible."
Huh? " irreversible " ??? Those words do not set well with actual leaders. Actual leaders change as the need suits. Actual leaders are not bound by agreements which become outdated, or unworkable.

So let that sink in for a second. The US decides NOT to do what 19 other countries want them to do, and that is lack of leadership. In other words, following is leading. You do what we say, and we will say you are a leader, for as long you do what tell you to. Stray off the farm to look after your own country- and you are not leading,. You must follow us to lead .

Remember Obama's " leading from behind " ? What the hell was that about ? You either lead , or you follow. The last guy in The Conga line isn't directing where the line is going. But Obama was already ready to follow:
Follow Putin ( I'll be more flexible )
Follow Iran ( Here's your pallet of foreign currency )
Follow Cuba ( Send us tourists and we can still do whatever we want )
Follow the UN
And follow the trends, in about any way the political wind was blowing.

This is what is so disturbing about Trump to the entrenched political class- both here and abroad, and to their supine mouthpieces, the main stream media. He is not going to follow the set formula, which reads something like this:
Act like we care about what WE think the voters want.
Promise something
Posture how caring we are
Throw some money at it
Tell the press to praise us
Campaign for reelection.

Trump threw a monkey wrench in the formula. Mr. Going-Over- the- Budget - line-by-line Obama did nothing of the sort. Trump looked at the Paris Accords, signed without the permission of the American people, and said Hell, no .
And how you view his reasons, depends on what you think of Trump. Either he is a deranged , unqualified, nut case, or he is doing the job he was elected to- look out for the interests of the US. Either way, it's done. We are not sending our pallets of cash to the UN.

But like this , or hate it, no matter how you slice it- Going along with the crowd is NOT being a leader.
I have always viewed liberals like Obama expressed. They cast a longing gaze all over the world, and oh so desperately want to be " Citizens of the World " Cosmopolitan, suave, cool, and not tied to such bourgeois' concepts as patriotism, Christianity, capitalism, and defending home and family.
And they just hate it that the person now in charge , is not going to get them invited to the best world cocktail parties.


Maisie2013 66F
16041 posts
7/17/2017 8:46 am

This blog is not really about the Paris Accords, the G-20 . I used them for examples, of what has become a dangerous trend. We have been told for the past 8 years, that the US is not special, we have no right to look after ourselves first, and we must do what the rest of the world wants, no matter how damaging it is to the US economy or our National Defense.
Germany thinks we should have solar panels- cancel the Pipelines
England thinks we should let in millions of Syrians, tear up the borders.
The UN thinks no private citizen should own a gun- start trying to repeal the 2nd Amendment
Buck the trend, and you are not a " Leader ". No- you are a puppet if you do follow.


jrh63_ 54M
8 posts
7/17/2017 9:08 am

Like this blog and also like how Maisie summed it up u are both square on target


jiminycricket1 67M
8072 posts
7/17/2017 9:43 am

Who decides who are the leaders and who are the puppets?

Who decides who leads and who follows?
Do we define a puppet by the person who does the right thing, in following?
Or do we we define a puppet by the person who does the wrong thing by following?

WHO DECIDES?

We may vote for a person to lead us.. but that doesn't make him a leader, and doesn't make US followers.

Who decides that?

A leader is a person not willing to be led? A leader gets his way everytime, a leader is followed simply because he has a title of leader?

A leader pulls the strings on the puppets?

To me a Leader is defined by having "No Strings Attached"
Trumps got more strings than the New York Philharmonic.
When, you and your 12 string guitar, need more lessons.


Maggie065 65F
1239 posts
7/17/2017 9:49 am

You must be sick of all that winning NOT !!!!


Fossil_Fetcher 69M
8674 posts
7/17/2017 10:04 am

The plaque hanging on the wall of my of my Commander's office at the Infantry School at Fort Benning, GA said it in plain English:

"DO SOMETHING - Lead, follow or get the hell out of the way."



Fossil


Facies liberals meum sanguinem fervere


Lisztomania 67M
8821 posts
7/17/2017 10:36 am

Obama has always reminded me of Gilbert's "The Duke of Plaza-Toro" from the light opera The Gondoliers. Here is his entry aria:

In enterprise of martial kind,
When there was any fighting,
He led his regiment from behind
(He found it less exciting).
But when away his regiment ran,
His place was at the fore, O-
That celebrated,
Cultivated,
Underrated
Noble man,
The Duke of Plaza-Toro!
In the first and foremost flight, ha, ha!
You always found that knight, ha, ha!
That celebrated,
Cultivated,
Underrated
Noble man,
The Duke of Plaza-Toro!

When, to evade Destruction's hand,
To hide they all proceeded,
No soldier in that gallant band
Hid half as well as he did.
He lay concealed throughout the war,
And so preserved his gore, O!
That unaffected,
Undetected,
Well connected
Warrior,
The Duke of Plaza-Toro!
In every doughty deed, ha, ha!
He always took the lead, ha, ha!
That unaffected,
Undetected,
Well connected
Warrior,
The Duke of Plaza-Toro!


Maisie2013 66F
16041 posts
7/17/2017 10:48 am

    Quoting Maggie065:
    You must be sick of all that winning NOT !!!!
Getting ISIS out of Mosul, stock market at all time high, lowest unemployment in decades, consumer confidence way up as is consumer spending, NATO nations upping their contributions , and not sending billons to the Climate Change Cartel looks pretty good to me.


Maisie2013 66F
16041 posts
7/17/2017 10:56 am


When I was a lad I served a term
As office boy to an attorney's firm
I cleaned the windows and I swept the floor
And I polished up the handle of the big front door

I polished up that handle so carefully
That now I am the Ruler of the Queen's Navy

In serving writs I made such a name
That an articled clerk I soon became
I wore clean collars and a brand-new suit
For the Pass Examination at the Institute

And that Pass Examination did so well for me
That now I am the Ruler of the Queen's Navy

I grew so rich that I was sent
By a pocket borough into Parliament
I always voted at my party's call
And I never thought of thinking for myself at all

I thought so little, they rewarded me
By making me the Ruler of the Queen's Navy

Another G & S ditty for the Past Commander-in - Chief


jiminycricket1 67M
8072 posts
7/17/2017 10:57 am

He had to hide in plain sight
so nobody could see him
To show that those who hide
you have to look to see.
If you can not open your eyes
Then find the truth in your heart
of what things actually are
and not... what you want them to be

For what is true in nature
Is the nature of the truth
That unaffected
Undetected
Well-connected
Warrior
The Duke of Mira-Lago.


Maisie2013 66F
16041 posts
7/17/2017 10:58 am

    Quoting Fossil_Fetcher:
    The plaque hanging on the wall of my of my Commander's office at the Infantry School at Fort Benning, GA said it in plain English:

    "DO SOMETHING - Lead, follow or get the hell out of the way."



    Fossil

Trump has the same sign. CNN says it is in Russian.


Maisie2013 66F
16041 posts
7/17/2017 11:00 am

    Quoting jiminycricket1:
    He had to hide in plain sight
    so nobody could see him
    To show that those who hide
    you have to look to see.
    If you can not open your eyes
    Then find the truth in your heart
    of what things actually are
    and not... what you want them to be

    For what is true in nature
    Is the nature of the truth
    That unaffected
    Undetected
    Well-connected
    Warrior
    The Duke of Mira-Lago.
Go away. You are no W.S. Gilbert


jiminycricket1 67M
8072 posts
7/17/2017 11:08 am

    Quoting Maisie2013:
    Go away. You are no W.S. Gilbert
I take that as a compliment from the queen of truth hyperbole.

Where the truth of the lie.......... is in the lie of the truth.


Maggie065 65F
1239 posts
7/17/2017 11:13 am

    Quoting Maisie2013:
    Getting ISIS out of Mosul, stock market at all time high, lowest unemployment in decades, consumer confidence way up as is consumer spending, NATO nations upping their contributions , and not sending billons to the Climate Change Cartel looks pretty good to me.
He's taking credit fir what Obama accomplished . Yea yea I know , you'll never admit it .


Maisie2013 66F
16041 posts
7/17/2017 11:19 am

    Quoting Maggie065:
    He's taking credit fir what Obama accomplished . Yea yea I know , you'll never admit it .
Yeah, and I'll bet Obama personally drove the vehicle at the front of the convoy that drove ISIS out- like the Taliban was on the run in 2012- right before they took over the oil fields.
And it was really Obama who got us out of the Paris Accords, and , of course, the second he left office, his economic policies, which did nothing for 8 years- leaped into high gear.


Maggie065 65F
1239 posts
7/17/2017 11:57 am

    Quoting Maisie2013:
    Yeah, and I'll bet Obama personally drove the vehicle at the front of the convoy that drove ISIS out- like the Taliban was on the run in 2012- right before they took over the oil fields.
    And it was really Obama who got us out of the Paris Accords, and , of course, the second he left office, his economic policies, which did nothing for 8 years- leaped into high gear.
I see you've never looked at the US economy from when Obama became president until he left . You're willing to go down with the ship . I expect even your hubby will grab a life jacket before long .


_JKH54_ 63M
14225 posts
7/17/2017 11:58 am

I have nothing to add, but just wanted to say I'm proud to see none of y'all are quoting and arguing politics with a man that was too lazy to do his civil duty to get out and vote.

~ ~


Maisie2013 66F
16041 posts
7/17/2017 12:10 pm

    Quoting Maggie065:
    I see you've never looked at the US economy from when Obama became president until he left . You're willing to go down with the ship . I expect even your hubby will grab a life jacket before long .
It has never taken 8 years to recover from a economic downturn, EXCEPT when the Government meddled . The 1927 crash was worse than the 1929, but it recovered on its own. The same in 1893. FDR prolonged the Depression by meddling, and the giant dust storms, born of over farming the Great Plains, didn't help .
Reagan did nothing when faced with a similar event, and the 80's were a boom.
TARP, Dodd /Frank ,Cash for clunkers, not to mention all the "shovel ready " jobs that didn't exist, which the Government threw money at, did nothing. Add in the EPA imposing regulations to kill business, and everything the Obama administration did to control the free market made everything worse.
The entire housing collapse was a leisure time activity of the Federal Government- no doc loans, forcing banks to loan to credit unworthy borrowers, horrible ARM's which started at zero- then ballooned to an unsustainable payment, it was no surprise people walked away. Add in Mortgage backed securities which bundled all the bad paper and traded them like stocks, and corrupt rating agencies, made so by Government law. Instead of letting the housing market recover on its own- the Government bailed them out- everyone from banks to car companies.
Obama's economic policies of having Government fingers in all the pies was a disaster.


Lisztomania 67M
8821 posts
7/17/2017 12:26 pm

    Quoting jiminycricket1:
    I take that as a compliment from the queen of truth hyperbole.

    Where the truth of the lie.......... is in the lie of the truth.
"Where the truth of the lie.......... is in the lie of the truth."

Tell me -- do you type this kind of jackwad BS with a straight face?


Lisztomania 67M
8821 posts
7/17/2017 12:30 pm

    Quoting Maggie065:
    He's taking credit fir what Obama accomplished . Yea yea I know , you'll never admit it .
The big question is just exactly when did you become Obama's mother. I suspect you are like those pathetic old dames who have nothing to do but follow the latest marriages, spats, and bowel movements of the British Royal Family. Obama is your permanent Prince Andrew, and he will never do wrong in your eyes. Correspondingly, Trump is cast as the evil villain of every situation.

Isn't it time to get a life?


_JKH54_ 63M
14225 posts
7/17/2017 1:46 pm

I spoke too soon.

~ ~


Maggie065 65F
1239 posts
7/17/2017 1:48 pm

    Quoting Lisztomania:
    The big question is just exactly when did you become Obama's mother. I suspect you are like those pathetic old dames who have nothing to do but follow the latest marriages, spats, and bowel movements of the British Royal Family. Obama is your permanent Prince Andrew, and he will never do wrong in your eyes. Correspondingly, Trump is cast as the evil villain of every situation.

    Isn't it time to get a life?
You mean a life like you guys have ... No thanks . I like my life .


jiminycricket1 67M
8072 posts
7/17/2017 2:33 pm

    Quoting Lisztomania:
    "Where the truth of the lie.......... is in the lie of the truth."

    Tell me -- do you type this kind of jackwad BS with a straight face?
Tell me you don't get it.. tell me it's too confusing for your small brain to makes sense.

Tell me that someone can't use a truth to create a lie, or vice versa.

Tell me it's not something you do.

Tell me a truth hyperbole is just the truth, and the whole truth.

Tell me, the truth about your lie, isn't in the lie about your truth.

When you try to define what is the truth, by how you can use the truth. It doesn't work.. the truth is what it is, you cant change it, make it work for you.
when you separate some of the truth from all the truth..You lie to yourself.
You and maisie have spent your life doing it, that's why you don't know the difference. Must be nice living your life with the truth never slapping you down. but I got news for you.... the truth is coming your way, you won't like it, and it won't like you.


Maisie2013 66F
16041 posts
7/17/2017 7:23 pm

    Quoting jiminycricket1:
    Tell me you don't get it.. tell me it's too confusing for your small brain to makes sense.

    Tell me that someone can't use a truth to create a lie, or vice versa.

    Tell me it's not something you do.

    Tell me a truth hyperbole is just the truth, and the whole truth.

    Tell me, the truth about your lie, isn't in the lie about your truth.

    When you try to define what is the truth, by how you can use the truth. It doesn't work.. the truth is what it is, you cant change it, make it work for you.
    when you separate some of the truth from all the truth..You lie to yourself.
    You and maisie have spent your life doing it, that's why you don't know the difference. Must be nice living your life with the truth never slapping you down. but I got news for you.... the truth is coming your way, you won't like it, and it won't like you.
What is wrong with you? Tell you what, since you have ZERO desire to make a cogent, well thought out comment, why not take up a foreign language? Perhaps you could then blog in Chinese or Farsi? It would make just as much sense.


jiminycricket1 67M
8072 posts
7/17/2017 10:38 pm

    Quoting Maisie2013:
    What is wrong with you? Tell you what, since you have ZERO desire to make a cogent, well thought out comment, why not take up a foreign language? Perhaps you could then blog in Chinese or Farsi? It would make just as much sense.
I have no desire to discuss the obvious with you.

You take a fifty lies from Trump and try to turn it into the truth.

There is no discussion about this, there is no discussion period. This isn't about Conservative , Libertarian, or Liberal. It's about the truth.

WTF... WRONG WITH YOU?


hermitinthecity 63M
1290 posts
7/18/2017 12:23 am

Sure Trump has his faults and the media loves to play on them, but he's a good businessman and has the guts to lead, be the 'bad boy' and function normally under fire. Every leader will make unpopular decisions, goes with the territory. I'm interested in seeing the economy at the end of his first term, he's not selling out to anyone and has all good intentions for America, not like the last bloke, he was a disaster and as far as I'm concerned betrayed the people of America. Never mind his 'failings' I admire the guy and wish nothing but the best for the U.S. from now on. Hope he stays in for the next term also and after that the next president will take him as their advisor. Wouldnt that upset a few!

Judgment Day will be interesting


Maisie2013 66F
16041 posts
7/18/2017 7:57 am

    Quoting jiminycricket1:
    I have no desire to discuss the obvious with you.

    You take a fifty lies from Trump and try to turn it into the truth.

    There is no discussion about this, there is no discussion period. This isn't about Conservative , Libertarian, or Liberal. It's about the truth.

    WTF... WRONG WITH YOU?
Yup, Farsi should be the language you use in blogs. We would all understand it better. You are the most illogical, confused person I have ever seen. The sad thing is, you think you make sense.
Let me offer everyone a scene from little JC in 2nd grade.
Ok class, today we are going to learn about letters.
What is the first letter of the alphabet ?
( Class all says A )
Little JC raises his hand.
What is actually "first " teacher? What is " last" ? Maybe A is in the middle and you are just too blind to see it there . And what is " A" ? I think A is not a letter, but a persimmon. Or maybe A is a number . Or a color. I think all of you are just to stupid to see the truth.
Teacher: Go to the Principal's office. Again.


CarolinaPanthera 56F
385 posts
7/18/2017 9:22 am

    Quoting hermitinthecity:
    Sure Trump has his faults and the media loves to play on them, but he's a good businessman and has the guts to lead, be the 'bad boy' and function normally under fire. Every leader will make unpopular decisions, goes with the territory. I'm interested in seeing the economy at the end of his first term, he's not selling out to anyone and has all good intentions for America, not like the last bloke, he was a disaster and as far as I'm concerned betrayed the people of America. Never mind his 'failings' I admire the guy and wish nothing but the best for the U.S. from now on. Hope he stays in for the next term also and after that the next president will take him as their advisor. Wouldnt that upset a few!
You ooze ignorance.


jiminycricket1 67M
8072 posts
7/18/2017 9:59 am

    Quoting Maisie2013:
    Yup, Farsi should be the language you use in blogs. We would all understand it better. You are the most illogical, confused person I have ever seen. The sad thing is, you think you make sense.
    Let me offer everyone a scene from little JC in 2nd grade.
    Ok class, today we are going to learn about letters.
    What is the first letter of the alphabet ?
    ( Class all says A )
    Little JC raises his hand.
    What is actually "first " teacher? What is " last" ? Maybe A is in the middle and you are just too blind to see it there . And what is " A" ? I think A is not a letter, but a persimmon. Or maybe A is a number . Or a color. I think all of you are just to stupid to see the truth.
    Teacher: Go to the Principal's office. Again.
Is it just too much to ask.. to tell the truth. Instead of combating my truth, tell Yours.

"You are the most illogical, confused person I have ever seen. The sad thing is, you think you make sense" ,maisie....How do you know that?

It's virtually impossible for me to make sense of it, when i think the whole thing is senseless.
I challenge you to make sense of it
I challenge you to make sense of your truth.
Be truthful. then make sense of it......Just say..

Liberals are bad people
Hillary and Obama are a lot "worser" than Trump.
There is no such thing as compromise, you either win or you lose.
One side of an argument is always right and the other side always wrong.
And anyone who disagrees with you is a Liberal.

Everything you write tells me that's what you think, to me, that doesn't make any sense.

It's seems I have been 'confusing" the entire time i have been here. That seems to work for you. If i'm confusing and don't make any sense, just ignore me. You can't change me, or convince me of anything... To me you lost your crediblity a long time ago. So what's the point, of calling me confusing..... I simply am what i am, and you are... what you are.


Maisie2013 66F
16041 posts
7/18/2017 10:05 am

    Quoting jiminycricket1:
    Is it just too much to ask.. to tell the truth. Instead of combating my truth, tell Yours.

    "You are the most illogical, confused person I have ever seen. The sad thing is, you think you make sense" ,maisie....How do you know that?

    It's virtually impossible for me to make sense of it, when i think the whole thing is senseless.
    I challenge you to make sense of it
    I challenge you to make sense of your truth.
    Be truthful. then make sense of it......Just say..

    Liberals are bad people
    Hillary and Obama are a lot "worser" than Trump.
    There is no such thing as compromise, you either win or you lose.
    One side of an argument is always right and the other side always wrong.
    And anyone who disagrees with you is a Liberal.

    Everything you write tells me that's what you think, to me, that doesn't make any sense.

    It's seems I have been 'confusing" the entire time i have been here. That seems to work for you. If i'm confusing and don't make any sense, just ignore me. You can't change me, or convince me of anything... To me you lost your crediblity a long time ago. So what's the point, of calling me confusing..... I simply am what i am, and you are... what you are.
When you've dug yourself into a deep enough hole, you should put the shovel down.


jiminycricket1 67M
8072 posts
7/18/2017 11:30 am

    Quoting Maisie2013:
    When you've dug yourself into a deep enough hole, you should put the shovel down.
I keep digging a hole, and you keep falling into it.......

How many times do you have to do it, How many time is it enough?

Why can't you stop? Just ignore me as confusing, and go on your merry way. but you can't do it. I am just not confusing enough, without you telling everyone how confusing I am. You say nothing else, no explanation, no reason, no examples. It seems I am so confusing you have this need to tell people how confusing I am!

You and lizst think you can "get to me". You can't "get to me". You have no meaning to me. You guys can't even get to a bathroom without it having a sign on it.


jiminycricket1 67M
8072 posts
7/18/2017 11:50 am

Maisie....I am not angry with you, i don't hate you, I feel sorry for you. I like confusing you........ I wish this was just for Conservatives.. It would be easier, but it's not, Liberals think the same way..... they are confused too.

I have ask the same question, just to confuse people, who only see the quality of life, as the way someone gets to live it.

Two people. One is a slave, one is a slave owner.
Who is the one in chains?
Who's life has been messed up?
Who should you feel sorry for?

Real or unreal... is there a difference?
Chains.....I'll take the "real" ones, ones that can be broken.
Maisie you are the one in chains.. Chains that can't be broken...Not me.....

Confusing?.. You Betcha!


Maisie2013 66F
16041 posts
7/18/2017 1:37 pm

    Quoting jiminycricket1:
    Maisie....I am not angry with you, i don't hate you, I feel sorry for you. I like confusing you........ I wish this was just for Conservatives.. It would be easier, but it's not, Liberals think the same way..... they are confused too.

    I have ask the same question, just to confuse people, who only see the quality of life, as the way someone gets to live it.

    Two people. One is a slave, one is a slave owner.
    Who is the one in chains?
    Who's life has been messed up?
    Who should you feel sorry for?

    Real or unreal... is there a difference?
    Chains.....I'll take the "real" ones, ones that can be broken.
    Maisie you are the one in chains.. Chains that can't be broken...Not me.....

    Confusing?.. You Betcha!
See shovel. See ground. Place it there.


jiminycricket1 67M
8072 posts
7/20/2017 11:34 am

    Quoting Maisie2013:
    See shovel. See ground. Place it there.
See shovel, see your Azz.....place it underneath it.

One of my flaws is to dig a hole...should not do that. But sometimes, I just can't let it go.

but at least, I'm not shoveling sh*t.


Fossil_Fetcher 69M
8674 posts
7/20/2017 11:42 am

    Quoting jiminycricket1:
    See shovel, see your Azz.....place it underneath it.

    One of my flaws is to dig a hole...should not do that. But sometimes, I just can't let it go.

    but at least, I'm not shoveling sh*t.
On the contrary, Jiminy, you pile it on in blogs and blog comments every day.

Fossil


Facies liberals meum sanguinem fervere