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Lisztomania 68M
13578 posts
12/1/2018 12:02 am
THE LAST OLD-SCHOOL REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT HAS DIED

R.I.P. George Herbert Walker Bush, 1924-2018

About 2 hours ago, I heard the tone on my phone signaling breaking news. Usually at that hour, I expect to read about a train derailment or a forest fire, but not this time: my phone informed me that President Bush the elder has passed away at age 94. My mouth involuntarily formed the syllable "awww" (unironically). Unbeknownst to all, I am a rather sentimental person.

This, of course, was not unexpected: it was clear to us all at Barbara's funeral that he was very feeble. But the actual event still shocked as I realized that Bush Sr. was the last of his kind in so many ways. He was the last of 7 presidents to serve in WW2, just as Andrew Jackson was the last to see service in the Revolution and William McKinley was the last of he Civil War presidents. And he served with distinction: at one point, he was the youngest fighter pilot in the navy. A modest and gentlemanly man, he seems a fit final representative of the Greatest Generation on the world stage.

I was an admirer of Bush (not uncritically) since 1980, when he was chosen as VP by Reagan. I voted for him twice for president, and I was very disappointed when he didn't win a second term when facing Slick Willy in 1992. Even as a one-term president, his accomplishments were significant. Perhaps most notably, Bush conducted one of the best, cleanest wars in our history (I am aware of the oxymoron) in the Gulf War of 1990. Just to remind you: after Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait, Bush put together a coalition of 30 nations, secured UN backing, and let Norman Schwarzkopf and others roll over the vaunted Iraqi army in 100 hours, with very few allied casualties. Further to Bush's credit, he resisted the urge to capture Baghdad and Saddam and engage in "nation-building."

At that point, Bush's approval rating was over 90%. And yet....he was defeated at the polls two years later by a more skillful politician. Oddly, Clinton's team and some of the media decided that Bush was a "wuss." Newsweek had an infamous cover which read GHW Bush: fighting the wimp factor. This about a man who had been shot down over the Pacific and earned a Distinguished Flying Cross. Bush was cursed with a whiny timbre to his voice which may have encouraged this perception. Bush also had to deal a populist 3rd party candidate in the form of H. Ross Perot, the jug-eared, populist, gazillionaire. That may have been the deciding factor. Add to that the fact that Clinton simply out-cooled Bush in 1992: Clinton played his saxophone on late night TV, was attractive to young women, liked by the media. (Democrats have a habit of "out-cooling" GOP nominees: think JFK vs. Nixon, Clinton vs. Dole, Obama vs. McCain, and Obama vs. Romney. Fortunately, Hillary was incapable of "out-cooling" anyone.)

But something changed in our politics when Bush left office: Baby Boomers replaced the Greatest Generation (Trump is our 4th Baby Boomer president) in the White House, and everywhere we see acrimony, threats of impeachment, overheated rhetoric, and street nihilism. We Boomers have many sins to account for when the "Roll is Called Up Yonder."

Bush Sr. seems as far away now as Lincoln. He deserves to be remembered for his remarkable life of public service, and, maybe more importantly, he seems now to have been the last gentleman president.


BELOW: In this photo, GHWB, as captain of the Yale baseball team, meets Babe Ruth, probably in 1947 or '48. Interestingly, the 2 men were the same height (6'2") but Ruth was ravaged by cancer.


Lisztomania 68M
10245 posts
12/1/2018 12:19 am

Just to acknowledge the other side of the story, Bush Sr. did indeed at times project squishiness and lack of resolution, and thus was the template for other Republicans to follow (McCain, and Romney come to mind.) The comment which lingers in my memory is Margaret Thatcher's statement to him as he mulled over the response to Saddam in 1990. Thatcher, who had been very close to Reagan, said to him "George, remember this is no time to go wobbly."


WellKnownAuthor 62M
341 posts
12/1/2018 1:26 am

With Accomplishment comes Legacy followed by Tribute!

In the next four or five days, the Majority of America will become United but only all to briefly!

Ones actions indeed can bring both setback and progress. Setback hinders accomplishments somewhat but service to ones country make him a true American.


MrsJoe 71F
9599 posts
12/1/2018 6:17 am

    Quoting Lisztomania:
    Just to acknowledge the other side of the story, Bush Sr. did indeed at times project squishiness and lack of resolution, and thus was the template for other Republicans to follow (McCain, and Romney come to mind.) The comment which lingers in my memory is Margaret Thatcher's statement to him as he mulled over the response to Saddam in 1990. Thatcher, who had been very close to Reagan, said to him "George, remember this is no time to go wobbly."
No need to do that..... there will be plenty who point out that side of his life soon enough. As was said, "The evil that men do lives after them; The good is oft interred with their bones........"
Let us remember the good for awhile.


Merry Christmas. Jesus is the reason for the season, and my reason for every season.


Rentier2 74M
167 posts
12/1/2018 6:44 am

Saddam may have been sucked into invading Iraq.
There is some evidence that the US ambassador to Iraq, fluent in Arabic, led him to believe that the US had no interest in defending Kuwait.


jiminycricket1 68M
9812 posts
12/1/2018 7:03 am

    Quoting MrsJoe:
    No need to do that..... there will be plenty who point out that side of his life soon enough. As was said, "The evil that men do lives after them; The good is oft interred with their bones........"
    Let us remember the good for awhile.
I totally agree..

It's truly a SAD STATE of our affairs.

Great men are not in measure to great deeds. George H Bush was a GREAT MAN..
Irregardless of what he was as a President..It's a big mistake both in eyes of History and the Public.. Great men personify great deeds, but great deeds do not necessarily personify great men.

It breaks my heart, today his passing.... As Lizst is right about George SR being the last Republican, old school, President... It has NEVER been more evident than it is TODAY.....I long for the Republicans to renew that old school idea, of great men, who live with great honor, with great integrity, with great ideas, and great values, are the ONLY men who can create great deeds..
Today... it is the lesson to be learned... of the ONLY way back...TO Make America Great Again.


Skariff2 66M
2753 posts
12/1/2018 7:10 am

I mourn the death of George H. W. Bush. He was a statesman and an American. More importantly, he was human, and he recognized that facet of his life and the shortcomings inherent with it. He was not afraid to admit it. He was a pragmatist dedicated to the furtherance of the United States sometimes at personal loss to his own legacy. "No new taxes" gave way to new taxes because of necessity not because of egotism. His service more than negated his mistakes from the Navy to the White House. He also recognized the value of his life partner Barbara Bush whose intellect and pragmatism was a strong influence on the pilot, the Congressman and the President advanced the causes of the United States despite strong opposition.

Perhaps the most important aspect of Bush "41's life was his working knowledge of the United States Government. He was vividly aware of what he could and couldn't do and recognized the the presidency as service rather than royalty. So, while I mourn his death, I celebrate his successes predicated on pragmatism and necessity.


Prejudice cannot be conquered with logic, logic didn't instill it and logic cannot eradicate it.


jiminycricket1 68M
9812 posts
12/1/2018 7:38 am

    Quoting Lisztomania:
    Just to acknowledge the other side of the story, Bush Sr. did indeed at times project squishiness and lack of resolution, and thus was the template for other Republicans to follow (McCain, and Romney come to mind.) The comment which lingers in my memory is Margaret Thatcher's statement to him as he mulled over the response to Saddam in 1990. Thatcher, who had been very close to Reagan, said to him "George, remember this is no time to go wobbly."
I know people don't understand how I read things.. how i think.
Your statement..means nothing to me, as to the individual words. But the bigger picture of a person's mindset....I know you can't understand it.. I know you can't see it.. |That's how i know it to be true..The mind is a funny thing .. truth always appears, when the mind doesn't get in the way.

"Bush Sr. did indeed at times project squishiness and lack of resolution, and thus was the template for other Republicans to follow (McCain, and Romney come to mind".

I'm am NOT calling this statement a LIE.. I'm calling it what you project.
For me.. it's simple.. and for you it's simplicity...obvious and undeniable...
Not so obvious and undeniable to ME..
Was Bush squishy, lacked resolution, and wobbly..? Absolutely...
But here's what i see.. that you don't.
Presidents have to make choices, try to determine all the possibilities and make the best possible decision. I doubt that any man. who becomes President.. That carries the weight of a nation.. to do his duty, with honor and integrity. would NOT at times find himself in the position of being wobbly, squishy and lacking resolution

We don't have a wobbly, squishy President NOW....and I find that to be his greatest detriment. enhanced by his "lack of resolution" about what is the truth.. and his inability to be wrong..and that he carries No WEIGHT.. Without his carrying the weight of the Presidency... I can not Trust, he cares enough to be wobbly and squishy.


jiminycricket1 68M
9812 posts
12/1/2018 8:04 am

I could easily see.. How JFK. was wobbly and squishy..It made me TRUST HIM.. The bay of pigs and the blockcade. and many other things made him wobbly and squishy. Making the right decisions when it is known...is easy.. But a President..who COULD make a wrong decision..Should make that President Wobbly, Squishy, and lacking resolution. Not after the decision. but to make the decision..
What Thatcher said to Bush, to make a decision, was the same thing YOU would have said.. Thatcher was an azzhole for saying it.. so what does that make you?
But Trump he's different.....he would have told her to f*ck off.. because his decision wasn't to HELP her...but figure out a way to help himself and shove it up her azz. and YOU would see... Trump would not have been wobbly...


starwomyn 65F
5995 posts
12/1/2018 10:31 am

The notion of political correctness . declares certain topics. certain expressions . even certain gestures off-limits. What began as a crusade for civility has soured into a cause of conflict and even censorship.
– George Herbert Walker Bush


God Speed George H W Bush flying free with Barbara -

Saltare cum per Vestimenta in vos saeviant Yule cooperantur


jiminycricket1 68M
9812 posts
12/1/2018 11:53 am

    Quoting starwomyn:
    The notion of political correctness . declares certain topics. certain expressions . even certain gestures off-limits. What began as a crusade for civility has soured into a cause of conflict and even censorship.
    – George Herbert Walker Bush

    God Speed George H W Bush flying free with Barbara -
I agree.. but we MAY not think of it the same.

My focus is not on what is politically correct ... doesn't really matter to me. what matters to me is the idea of what's NOT politically correct.....And the judgment people make about that
Even though I can say the "idea" of being politically should matter.
The idea that we are each our own person, and politically correct is a consideration.. as long as you consider it, as being respectful to others .. it is whatever you think it is.

The irony is that current attitude about being politically correct is the polar opposite of the idea of what being politically correct is.
The conflict and division results when someone else tries to make that decision for you, and that you are not being politically correct...When they are the ones not being civil and respectful, and thus...NOT being politically correct.


Lisztomania 68M
10245 posts
12/1/2018 11:53 am

I hope you are right, and we have a ceasefire for a few days. Bush Sr. deserves it. I'm not counting on it, though. Thanks for the comment.


Lisztomania 68M
10245 posts
12/1/2018 11:57 am

    Quoting MrsJoe:
    No need to do that..... there will be plenty who point out that side of his life soon enough. As was said, "The evil that men do lives after them; The good is oft interred with their bones........"
    Let us remember the good for awhile.
Good point. No need to be "fair and balanced" on the day a man dies. There will be detractors though, probably soon.


Lisztomania 68M
10245 posts
12/1/2018 12:15 pm

A personal note here: Bush Sr. is one of the few presidents I have actually seen, at close range. In the mid-80's, the school at which I taught conferred an honorary degree on him, and by the luck of the draw, I was seated next to him in the Chapel where the degree was conferred. He was the same modest, pleasant person I expected, and he delivered an appropriate acceptance speech.

I also recall there was a protest across the street mostly composed of younger faculty! The cause of indignation that day was our relationship with South Africa, which the left felt was too cozy.


Lisztomania 68M
10245 posts
12/1/2018 12:16 pm

    Quoting jiminycricket1:
    I totally agree..

    It's truly a SAD STATE of our affairs.

    Great men are not in measure to great deeds. George H Bush was a GREAT MAN..
    Irregardless of what he was as a President..It's a big mistake both in eyes of History and the Public.. Great men personify great deeds, but great deeds do not necessarily personify great men.

    It breaks my heart, today his passing.... As Lizst is right about George SR being the last Republican, old school, President... It has NEVER been more evident than it is TODAY.....I long for the Republicans to renew that old school idea, of great men, who live with great honor, with great integrity, with great ideas, and great values, are the ONLY men who can create great deeds..
    Today... it is the lesson to be learned... of the ONLY way back...TO Make America Great Again.
Nice comment.


Lisztomania 68M
10245 posts
12/1/2018 12:24 pm

    Quoting Skariff2:
    I mourn the death of George H. W. Bush. He was a statesman and an American. More importantly, he was human, and he recognized that facet of his life and the shortcomings inherent with it. He was not afraid to admit it. He was a pragmatist dedicated to the furtherance of the United States sometimes at personal loss to his own legacy. "No new taxes" gave way to new taxes because of necessity not because of egotism. His service more than negated his mistakes from the Navy to the White House. He also recognized the value of his life partner Barbara Bush whose intellect and pragmatism was a strong influence on the pilot, the Congressman and the President advanced the causes of the United States despite strong opposition.

    Perhaps the most important aspect of Bush "41's life was his working knowledge of the United States Government. He was vividly aware of what he could and couldn't do and recognized the the presidency as service rather than royalty. So, while I mourn his death, I celebrate his successes predicated on pragmatism and necessity.
Nice summation. Among the recent presidents, Bush stands as one of the most personally balanced and least narcissistic. He conceded he had trouble with what he called "the vision thing," but he presided effectively over great historical events, just as the tearing down of the Berlin Wall.


Lisztomania 68M
10245 posts
12/1/2018 12:27 pm

    Quoting jiminycricket1:
    I could easily see.. How JFK. was wobbly and squishy..It made me TRUST HIM.. The bay of pigs and the blockcade. and many other things made him wobbly and squishy. Making the right decisions when it is known...is easy.. But a President..who COULD make a wrong decision..Should make that President Wobbly, Squishy, and lacking resolution. Not after the decision. but to make the decision..
    What Thatcher said to Bush, to make a decision, was the same thing YOU would have said.. Thatcher was an azzhole for saying it.. so what does that make you?
    But Trump he's different.....he would have told her to f*ck off.. because his decision wasn't to HELP her...but figure out a way to help himself and shove it up her azz. and YOU would see... Trump would not have been wobbly...
Back to your usual tenor, I see. What the hell is wrong with you? No need to call Thatcher or me an "azzhole."


Lisztomania 68M
10245 posts
12/1/2018 1:46 pm

    Quoting Rentier2:
    Saddam may have been sucked into invading Iraq.
    There is some evidence that the US ambassador to Iraq, fluent in Arabic, led him to believe that the US had no interest in defending Kuwait.
I assume you meant Kuwait rather than Iraq in your first sentence. After a bit of digging, I find that the ambassador involved was April Glaspie (Canadian-born), and it does seem that she was not singing from the same hymnal as the sec. of state and Bush. It doesn't seem to be sinister though, i.e., an intentional trap.


hiramhankwilliam 95M
3085 posts
12/1/2018 5:56 pm

LISZ, please for give my opposing thoughts on 41.

he became "famous" for two reasons.

he was a modern paul ryan/ mitch mcconnell .

more than less a rino.

he brought little to the table.

at the time gov Reagan kicked azz an took names.

his so called advisors convinc

DEATH IS A CERTAIN, ETERNITY IS A CHOICE


Lisztomania 68M
10245 posts
12/2/2018 7:00 am

    Quoting hiramhankwilliam:
    LISZ, please for give my opposing thoughts on 41.

    he became "famous" for two reasons.

    he was a modern paul ryan/ mitch mcconnell .

    more than less a rino.

    he brought little to the table.

    at the time gov Reagan kicked azz an took names.

    his so called advisors convinc
I respect your opinions and I know where they're coming from. That's why I said in my first comment that Bush Sr. was the template for Republicans like Mitt Romney, more eager to be perceived as playing by the Marquis of Queensbury rules than to implement their agenda.

I think though that Bush was a much bigger man than the real RINOs. His humility came from strength rather than weakness.


Maisie2013 67F
18828 posts
12/2/2018 7:06 am

All of a sudden, the media will portray the Bushes as the Greatest Statesmen in the World. Junior, included. Why? Because they didn't and dont like Trump.

There will be praises from the same dishonest media who trashed them both, and comparisons , all of which will be used to trash Trump, not to praise the elder.


Lisztomania 68M
10245 posts
12/2/2018 7:40 am

    Quoting Maisie2013:
    All of a sudden, the media will portray the Bushes as the Greatest Statesmen in the World. Junior, included. Why? Because they didn't and dont like Trump.

    There will be praises from the same dishonest media who trashed them both, and comparisons , all of which will be used to trash Trump, not to praise the elder.
When I wrote this blog, it was just after I had seen the bulletin of Bush's passing. I did not anticipate the enormous outpouring of tributes from the mainstream media and many Democrats. They had no great love for Bush when he was president or VP. So I smell a rat too. The Dems have decided that showering Bush with praise will serve as an effective tacit rebuke of Trump too. The MSM was harsh on senior Bush at the time, and clearly in the tank for Clinton in 1992. They delighted in pointing out his more inarticulate moments and embarrassments (such as when he puked at a state dinner in Japan.)

As a matter of fact, bijou stated that explicitly on another blog yesterday:

"What a gentleman, kind, caring, war hero, polite, diplomatic, honest, etc. How on earth did we ever get from Bush Sr. to Donald Trump?"

For the Left, the only good Republican is a dead Republican.


Maisie2013 67F
18828 posts
12/2/2018 7:57 am

Also worthy of note, when looking at what , like I said , will be glowing nostalgia for how great the Bush Sr. Presidency was, that in 1992, nine of the White House correspondents surveyed voted for Democrat Bill Clinton, two for Republican George H. W. Bush, and one for independent Ross Perot.
In 1988, 12 voted for Democrat Michael Dukakis, one for Bush.

In 1984, 10 voted for Democrat Walter Mondale, zero for Ronald Reagan.
In 1980, eight voted for Democrat Jimmy Carter, four for liberal independent John Anderson, and two voted for Ronald Reagan.
In 1976, 11 voted for Carter, two for Republican Gerald Ford.

In 1985, the Los Angeles Times conducted one of the most extensive surveys of journalists in history. Using the same questionnaire they had used to poll the public, the Times polled 2,700 journalists at 621 newspapers across the country. They found that by a margin of two-to-one, reporters had a negative view of then-President Ronald Reagan and voted, by the same margin, for Walter Mondale in 1984.

Liberal meida bias is nothing new.


Maisie2013 67F
18828 posts
12/2/2018 7:58 am

89 percent of Washington-based reporters said they voted for Bill Clinton in 1992. Only seven percent voted for George Bush, with two percent choosing Ross Perot.


dusty117 68M
682 posts
12/2/2018 2:44 pm

Yes George H W Bush was a great Statesman .. you might not have noticed at the time because Statesman was just part of the job description then, as per voters.

Christopher Buckeley, speech writer for H W Bush when he was Vice President, said Saturday on NPR Radio "He was a Christian gentleman. And he was the paradigm of the Christian gentleman. He didn't have - he had no mean bone in his body. I'd never heard - you would hear him perhaps talk a little bit askance about someone. But he - but I never heard an ad hominem attack or caustic comment come out of him. He had a beautiful soul. And it was always radiant and on display".

The entire interview was a great tribute and from a man who knew H W very well.

If language like this reflects badly on Trump … that's just too damn bad. Maybe Trump should have thought it through … before he picked Limbaugh and Hannity to design his presidency.


Maisie2013 67F
18828 posts
12/2/2018 6:11 pm

    Quoting dusty117:
    Yes George H W Bush was a great Statesman .. you might not have noticed at the time because Statesman was just part of the job description then, as per voters.

    Christopher Buckeley, speech writer for H W Bush when he was Vice President, said Saturday on NPR Radio "He was a Christian gentleman. And he was the paradigm of the Christian gentleman. He didn't have - he had no mean bone in his body. I'd never heard - you would hear him perhaps talk a little bit askance about someone. But he - but I never heard an ad hominem attack or caustic comment come out of him. He had a beautiful soul. And it was always radiant and on display".

    The entire interview was a great tribute and from a man who knew H W very well.

    If language like this reflects badly on Trump … that's just too damn bad. Maybe Trump should have thought it through … before he picked Limbaugh and Hannity to design his presidency.
Looks like I was right. You just couldn't praise HW without mentioning Trump. Couldn't you have just done the former, and leave the current President out of it? Nah, not when you have TDS .


Lisztomania 68M
10245 posts
12/2/2018 7:38 pm

    Quoting dusty117:
    Yes George H W Bush was a great Statesman .. you might not have noticed at the time because Statesman was just part of the job description then, as per voters.

    Christopher Buckeley, speech writer for H W Bush when he was Vice President, said Saturday on NPR Radio "He was a Christian gentleman. And he was the paradigm of the Christian gentleman. He didn't have - he had no mean bone in his body. I'd never heard - you would hear him perhaps talk a little bit askance about someone. But he - but I never heard an ad hominem attack or caustic comment come out of him. He had a beautiful soul. And it was always radiant and on display".

    The entire interview was a great tribute and from a man who knew H W very well.

    If language like this reflects badly on Trump … that's just too damn bad. Maybe Trump should have thought it through … before he picked Limbaugh and Hannity to design his presidency.
Just imagine who would have designed Hillary's presidency.