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sparkleflit 76F
5212 posts
1/17/2020 4:24 pm
POST-TRUTH IS PRE-FASCISM


From "The Origins of Totalitarianism" by Hannah Arendt 1958

Before mass leaders seize the power to fit reality to their lies, their propaganda is marked by its extreme contempt for facts as such, for in their opinion,facts depend entirely on the power of a man to fabricate it."

and..."The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between true and false (ie, the standards of thought) no longer exist.".......

"Trump's refusal to admit the truth of widely accepted fact erodes political discourse and is consistent with the practice of authoritarian leaders. The assertion of the power to dictate reality by ignoring inconvenient facts is destructive of democratic governance. False statements about politics and policy strike at the very heart of democracy. If there are no agreed-upon facts, then it becomes impossible for people to make judgments about the government or hold it accountable.".

From "On Tyranny", Timothy Snyder argued:...
"To abandon facts is to abandon freedom. If nothing is true, then no can criticize power, because there is no basis on which do so........"..


sparkleflit 76F
10271 posts
1/17/2020 4:25 pm

***


sparkleflit 76F
10271 posts
1/17/2020 4:35 pm

POST-TRUTH IS PRE-FASCISM........


LeafReport 73M

1/17/2020 6:16 pm

It sure is. What is it going to take to raise consciousness to the levels required to stop the slide? I'm not sure that answer has appeared upon the horizon.


dannyfisher 79M

1/17/2020 7:07 pm

you seem seriously obsessed to try to convince others that your opinion about trump is the only one that is correct or proper.

I don't think you can find any thing close to the guidelines of fascism present in America .

there is more socialism present now than ever.

I would suggest you check the definition of fascism.

after you do. point out what elements of a fascist state are present in our nation.

in case u need help. post and during ww2 Italy. was a fascist state. the ruler was over thrown and killed.

throwing words around that you don't know the meaning of is not wise..


myseek1 80F
1376 posts
1/17/2020 8:30 pm

    Quoting dannyfisher:
    you seem seriously obsessed to try to convince others that your opinion about trump is the only one that is correct or proper.

    I don't think you can find any thing close to the guidelines of fascism present in America .

    there is more socialism present now than ever.

    I would suggest you check the definition of fascism.

    after you do. point out what elements of a fascist state are present in our nation.

    in case u need help. post and during ww2 Italy. was a fascist state. the ruler was over thrown and killed.

    throwing words around that you don't know the meaning of is not wise..
Calling Trump a fascist is wrong in my mind also. I cannot see any suppression of the individual here.The leftist neo-liberalism is much more of a threat. We see the effects of the latter already in Europe - loss of freedom of speech, criticism is punished like losing the job, schoolkids are encouraged to educate their parents, the new climate movement is part of a cultural revolution, etc...... Germany took the leading role in Europe. People in Europe are now protesting the drastic changes they are facing. I would say that Trump is a populist, who claims to represent the common people. That is the way I see it.

Happiness is when what you think, what you say, what you do are in harmony - M. Gandhi


dannyfisher 79M

1/17/2020 9:07 pm

    Quoting myseek1:
    Calling Trump a fascist is wrong in my mind also. I cannot see any suppression of the individual here.The leftist neo-liberalism is much more of a threat. We see the effects of the latter already in Europe - loss of freedom of speech, criticism is punished like losing the job, schoolkids are encouraged to educate their parents, the new climate movement is part of a cultural revolution, etc...... Germany took the leading role in Europe. People in Europe are now protesting the drastic changes they are facing. I would say that Trump is a populist, who claims to represent the common people. That is the way I see it.
thank you.

well said and more should read your words.

enjoy your weekend


Katie_au_lait 78F
7026 posts
1/18/2020 1:55 am

I see hank's got a new "disguise"...it doesn't work because it fools nobody.


LeafReport 73M

1/18/2020 2:50 am

    Quoting dannyfisher:
    you seem seriously obsessed to try to convince others that your opinion about trump is the only one that is correct or proper.

    I don't think you can find any thing close to the guidelines of fascism present in America .

    there is more socialism present now than ever.

    I would suggest you check the definition of fascism.

    after you do. point out what elements of a fascist state are present in our nation.

    in case u need help. post and during ww2 Italy. was a fascist state. the ruler was over thrown and killed.

    throwing words around that you don't know the meaning of is not wise..
Are you serious? Your suggestion is so far from reality it leaves me speechless. At this juncture I don't know whether you are worth the effort. So let's begin with this...take all those perceptions and dump them in the garbage and lets start over. Once you confirm that I would be happy to engage with you.


LeafReport 73M

1/18/2020 3:11 am

    Quoting myseek1:
    Calling Trump a fascist is wrong in my mind also. I cannot see any suppression of the individual here.The leftist neo-liberalism is much more of a threat. We see the effects of the latter already in Europe - loss of freedom of speech, criticism is punished like losing the job, schoolkids are encouraged to educate their parents, the new climate movement is part of a cultural revolution, etc...... Germany took the leading role in Europe. People in Europe are now protesting the drastic changes they are facing. I would say that Trump is a populist, who claims to represent the common people. That is the way I see it.
Trump does not, nor has he EVER had majority support of the country and he has now been impeached and awaits trial for abuse of power. His involvement in the theft of babies and children from desperate mothers who legally sought sanctuary in the United States was appalling. Trump has acted to thwart justice, lied profusely to the American people, and he's been challenged many times in the courts already, and lost. A new kind of fascism is emerging in America and if Europe doesn't pay attention it is going to swallow you up....again.


dannyfisher 79M

1/18/2020 7:27 am

    Quoting LeafReport:
    Are you serious? Your suggestion is so far from reality it leaves me speechless. At this juncture I don't know whether you are worth the effort. So let's begin with this...take all those perceptions and dump them in the garbage and lets start over. Once you confirm that I would be happy to engage with you.
please post examples of fascism present in American..

that was my request. also don't flatter u r self.


dannyfisher 79M

1/18/2020 7:33 am

when I ask for examples. post examples of true fascism . not opinions based on your hat of our president and his supporters.

YOU CAN'T!!!!!!

oh yes. you ramble when confronted. settle down and come back. we can do this any time


sparkleflit 76F
10271 posts
1/18/2020 10:14 am

    Quoting myseek1:
    Calling Trump a fascist is wrong in my mind also. I cannot see any suppression of the individual here.The leftist neo-liberalism is much more of a threat. We see the effects of the latter already in Europe - loss of freedom of speech, criticism is punished like losing the job, schoolkids are encouraged to educate their parents, the new climate movement is part of a cultural revolution, etc...... Germany took the leading role in Europe. People in Europe are now protesting the drastic changes they are facing. I would say that Trump is a populist, who claims to represent the common people. That is the way I see it.
I did't call Trump a Fascist......Do you know what the prefix "pre" means?There are, however aspects of Trump's rule that has fascist aspects.....The foremost being the cult of personality. Another is his constant lies that attempt to create a reality that is an alternative to the factual one.......Yet another aspect of Fascism that Trump is to vilify the "other" to cause his followers to believe they are victims and would be saved by the elimination of a group of "others"......"Make America Great Again" What prevents America from being great now? According to Trump, it's the presence of the "other".......


sparkleflit 76F
10271 posts
1/18/2020 10:34 am

    Quoting myseek1:
    Calling Trump a fascist is wrong in my mind also. I cannot see any suppression of the individual here.The leftist neo-liberalism is much more of a threat. We see the effects of the latter already in Europe - loss of freedom of speech, criticism is punished like losing the job, schoolkids are encouraged to educate their parents, the new climate movement is part of a cultural revolution, etc...... Germany took the leading role in Europe. People in Europe are now protesting the drastic changes they are facing. I would say that Trump is a populist, who claims to represent the common people. That is the way I see it.
Yet another aspect of Trump's rule that moves in the direction of Fascism is the nationalism....the isolation of the US from it's allies.....the dropping out of international associations......the vilifying of historical allies and honoring authoritarian leaders......